Theism's Perversion of Basic Terms

Originally posted by Taoman
How do you explain love, grace and forgiveness, while talking of judgement and damnation at the same time? That's not twisting. That's a logical question.

Travis loved Ol' Yeller more than life itself. Yet he still pulled the trigger. Loving someone doesn't mean showering them with gifts and pleasures 24x7. God is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice. And though the free gift of salvation is offered, it is still yet willfully rejected. Most Atheists I bump into 'round these parts have such seething hatred for even the mere idea of God, they would gladly burn in hell rather than spend one second, let alone all eternity with Him.

Originally posted by sumydid
Travis loved Ol' Yeller more than life itself. Yet he still pulled the trigger. Loving someone doesn't mean showering them with gifts and pleasures 24x7. God is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice. And though the free gift of salvation is offered, it is still yet willfully rejected. Most Atheists I bump into 'round these parts have such seeth ...[text shortened]... they would gladly burn in hell rather than spend one second, let alone all eternity with Him.

Kids, how many bizarro terms do you see in this post? 😵

Originally posted by sumydid
Travis loved Ol' Yeller more than life itself. Yet he still pulled the trigger. Loving someone doesn't mean showering them with gifts and pleasures 24x7. God is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice. And though the free gift of salvation is offered, it is still yet willfully rejected. Most Atheists I bump into 'round these parts have such seeth ...[text shortened]... they would gladly burn in hell rather than spend one second, let alone all eternity with Him.

Welcome back sumydid.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Kids, how many bizarro terms do you see in this post? 😵

Did sunnydid strike a nerve? 😏

P.S. In case you didn't know, sunnydid is what I call sumydid.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The word 'good' is a contrast word. Without 'bad' we cannot have 'good'. If anything God does, is, as Kelly claims, not bad due to the fact that God created everything and thus has the right to do whatever he likes with it, then it is also incorrect to call any of Gods actions 'good'.
God could torture all humanity for eternity and Kelly will say 'that i ...[text shortened]... s are all neutral. God cannot do wrong but neither can God do right, he can only do.

God is good unconditionally. You can't put conditions on God, because that is illogical. 😏

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
God is good unconditionally. You can't put conditions on God, because that is illogical. 😏

You just did put a condition on God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Did sunnydid strike a nerve? 😏

P.S. In case you didn't know, sunnydid is what I call sumydid.

No dude. It was more like amusement. I guess it was inevitable that some theist would come along and unwittingly provide an example for the thread title. 🙂

Originally posted by LemonJello
Yeah, I said the "perversion" of basic terms. If you bother to look up the term 'perversion', that in context means something like the distortion beyond normal recognition of basic terms.

By the way, I'm still waiting for your points of clarification, you know where you provide actual reasons aimed at enhancing my understanding. Do you have any?

None that would satisfy you, sorry.

This still does not prove your point, I'm afraid.

Your not being satisfied by any clarification I would make is your failing, not mine, even though you claim to have a far more open mind than any theist.

Christians do have a normal recognition of all the terms you listed. Therefore it is not a perversion of any kind.

Originally posted by LemonJello
I wasn't aware that there was anything wrong with my heart. Besides if I am, as you claim, having trouble understanding things here, that should implicate a problem within my mentality, not my blood pump.

You could always try explaining it to me if you think I have a failure of the understanding.

I would characterize it as a refusal to understand, versus a failure to understand.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Since God created the universe, appoints each person's death...I'd say He has
some level of control the rest of us do not, yes. Again, He setup everything
from gravity, to how big your zits can get...he sets the boundries on how far
up the waves come up the beach, He can and does have the power to end a life
as He sees fit yes. He has this because He is to time, but if life does not heal itself by design we die if we
are sick or injured.
Kelly

All I am hearing you say is that God has this power, God has that power, God can do this, God can do that, God does this, God does that, etc. Yes, I already know the theist is committed to God's having this and that power. That follows trivially from the theistic commitment to God's omnipotence.

None of this is actually relevant to the discussion at hand. The discussion does not concern what is merely within the power of God to carry out; it concerns what God may justifiably carry out. Huge difference there, don't you think? I know that you must understand this difference, so I have no idea why you irresponsibly ignore it in these discussions. This distinction is a simple one: the set of things that God can do is, in principle, a different matter from the set of things that God may justifiably or permissibly do, just like the set of things that KellyJay can do is, in principle, a different matter from the set of things KellyJay may justifiably do. For example, just because KellyJay can walk up to a random stranger on the street and shoot them in the head, it doesn't follow that KellyJay can justifiably do this. You've provided absolutely zero reasons to think a similar distinction does not hold for other agents, such as God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
We are to set our moral standards based on God's moral standards, as was demonstrated to mankind by the Son of God. We have no authority to set the moral standards of God based only on human devised morals.

HalleluYah ! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

I honestly do not understand what you mean here.

How does this address the potential problems I outlined against KellyJay's view (I mentioned 4 of them)?

Originally posted by Suzianne
None that would satisfy you, sorry.

This still does not prove your point, I'm afraid.

Your not being satisfied by any clarification I would make is your failing, not mine, even though you claim to have a far more open mind than any theist.

Christians do have a normal recognition of all the terms you listed. Therefore it is not a perversion of any kind.

So, as I thought, you have no actual clarifications to provide here. Okay then.

Feel free to just keep telling everyone that all this bizarro usage must be taken on faith. As I already explained to you, that basically just makes my point for me.

Originally posted by RJHinds
God is good unconditionally. You can't put conditions on God, because that is illogical. 🙄

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

you just put a condition on god.

Originally posted by LemonJello
All I am hearing you say is that God has this power, God has that power, God can do this, God can do that, God does this, God does that, etc. Yes, I already know the theist is committed to God's having this and that power. That follows trivially from the theistic commitment to God's omnipotence.

None of this is actually relevant to the discussion a ...[text shortened]... ly zero reasons to think a similar distinction does not hold for other agents, such as God.

It is very relevant to the discussion, the right to do His will with His creation
any way He deems fit is going to found with someone else's views of right
and wrong? Seriously, you want to hold God accountable for your likes and
dislikes?

I imagine you can no doubt about it, but do you have the right with that
ability? The right to protest a traffic ticket only can happen within the frame
work of the system, and since God created both the system and the laws
how is it not His right to do anything He wants the way He wants?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
... and since God created both the system and the laws
how is it not His right to do anything He wants the way He wants?

It doesn't necessarily follow.
The US system and laws were created by some politicians and judges over the ages with input from various people. Not only does this not give any individual rights to do as they wish, but even those who did not take part creating the system have rights and can criticize those involved in creating the laws, and even use those laws to compel the creators to do certain things.