theists are in a universal black hole

Originally posted by sonhouse
no apologies needed! If anything, an agnostic gets "pity" from
theists, so vastly uncertain, poor guy. Like I care. One problem
you cannot get around, suppose what you think of as a god is
in fact only a very powerful alien with an attitude problem.
How would you tell the differance? Seems to me just as likely a
possiblity of that then a real god, ...[text shortened]... my heart" kind of crap.
Give me something objective here. How would you know the
differance?

just for a dichotomy of agnostic and gnostic.

this is Gnostic:
"I will speak to those who know to hear not with the ears of the body but with the ears of the mind. For many have sought after the truth and have not been able to find it; because there has taken hold of them the old leaven of the Pharisees and the scribes of the Law. And the leaven is the errant desire of the angels and the demons and the stars. As for the Pharisees and the scribes, it is they who belong to the archons who have authority over them.."

Originally posted by frogstomp
just for a dichotomy of agnostic and gnostic.

this is Gnostic:
"I will speak to those who know to hear not with the ears of the body but with the ears of the mind. For many have sought after the truth and have not been able to find it; because there has taken hold of them the old leaven of the Pharisees and the scribes of the Law. And the leaven ...[text shortened]... Pharisees and the scribes, it is they who belong to the archons who have authority over them.."

and later in the same Gnostic text:

"The foolish - thinking in their heart that if they confess, "We are Christians," in word only (but) not with power, while giving themselves over to ignorance, to a human death, not knowing where they are going nor who Christ is, thinking that they will live, when they are (really) in error - hasten towards the principalities and authorities. They fall into their clutches because of the ignorance that is in them. For (if) only words which bear testimony were effecting salvation, the whole world would endure this thing and would be saved. But it is in this way that they drew error to themselves. ...
... (3 lines unrecoverable)
... they do not know that they will destroy themselves. If the Father were to desire a human sacrifice, he would become vainglorious."

Originally posted by frogstomp
and later in the same Gnostic text:

"The foolish - thinking in their heart that if they confess, "We are Christians," in word only (but) not with power, while giving themselves over to ignorance, to a human death, not knowing where they are going nor who Christ is, thinking that they will live, when they are (really) in error - hasten towards the ...[text shortened]... troy themselves. If the Father were to desire a human sacrifice, he would become vainglorious."

sounds to me like you have a lot of words yourself...and that is all there is.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
sounds to me like you have a lot of words yourself...and that is all there is.

whose words? That was written by an early Christian, 200 years before Error got control of the roman church and used violence to suppress other Christians.

Originally posted by frogstomp
whose words? That was written by an early Christian, 200 years before Error got control of the roman church and used violence to suppress other Christians.

Is Error a person or chance?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Is Error a person or chance?

Error is the distortion of the spirit that permeates all living things, the Gnostic quotes I gave were used as reasoning behind the innacuracy of the OT's description of God, later Gnostics viewed the creator god as evil because the creation of matter caused the Error.
God to the Gnostic Christians was the Spirit, and the rest of the universe , including man, was part of God.

Originally posted by rwingett
Atheism has nothing to do with evolution. They're two completely different subjects. Not all atheists believe in evolution (although there tends to be a very high correlation), and large number of theists do believe in it.

I think creation has nothing to do with evolution either, but
some find that hard to believe. I do agree with you, atheism and
evolution are different subjects, but they do have something to do
with one another depending how both are defined.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
no apologies needed! If anything, an agnostic gets "pity" from
theists, so vastly uncertain, poor guy. Like I care. One problem
you cannot get around, suppose what you think of as a god is
in fact only a very powerful alien with an attitude problem.
How would you tell the differance? Seems to me just as likely a
possiblity of that then a real god, ...[text shortened]... my heart" kind of crap.
Give me something objective here. How would you know the
differance?

Startgate, episode 1, season 1, through Season 9 on...
😲
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think creation has nothing to do with evolution either, but
some find that hard to believe. I do agree with you, atheism and
evolution are different subjects, but they do have something to do
with one another depending how both are defined.
Kelly

The only thing they have to do with one another is that because atheists do not accept supernatural explanations for things, they will give preference to purely naturalistic ones. So atheists will tend to gravitate toward evolution.

If someone tells you they're an atheist, you can make a good guess that they'll also belief in evolution. But they do not necessarily go hand in hand.

Originally posted by rwingett
The only thing they have to do with one another is that because atheists do not accept supernatural explanations for things, they will give preference to purely naturalistic ones. So atheists will tend to gravitate toward evolution.

If someone tells you they're an atheist, you can make a good guess that they'll also belief in evolution. But they do not necessarily go hand in hand.

I agree they do not necessarily go hand in hand.
Kelly

Originally posted by rwingett
The only thing they have to do with one another is that because atheists do not accept supernatural explanations for things, they will give preference to purely naturalistic ones. So atheists will tend to gravitate toward evolution.

If someone tells you they're an atheist, you can make a good guess that they'll also belief in evolution. But they do not necessarily go hand in hand.

Interesting thing about athiests: there may be more to the universe
than can be summed up by our set of forces so far discovered:
Electromagnetic, strong, weak, gravity. It may turn out that other
forces maybe acting across dimensional barriers give rise to what
we would call "supernatural" simply because all of nature has not
been discovered yet. Maybe a million years from now, if science
and the human race survive that long, maybe then we would say
atheists were wrong to deny the possiblilty of, say, telepathy,
or other "supernatural" events.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Interesting thing about athiests: there may be more to the universe
than can be summed up by our set of forces so far discovered:
Electromagnetic, strong, weak, gravity. It may turn out that other
forces maybe acting across dimensional barriers give rise to what
we would call "supernatural" simply because all of nature has not
been discovered yet. Ma ...[text shortened]... heists were wrong to deny the possiblilty of, say, telepathy,
or other "supernatural" events.

Atheists do not at any time deny the possibility of telepathy or other supernatural events. If you can provide any good evidence that they exist then we will believe in them. Until then...

Your problem is that you don't know what an atheist is.

Originally posted by rwingett
Atheists do not at any time deny the possibility of telepathy or other supernatural events. If you can provide any good evidence that they exist then we will believe in them. Until then...

Your problem is that you don't know what an atheist is.

I see the problem being that you might only accept natural (empirical) evidence for the supernatural, which clearly means that there's no way to prove it by your criteria.

Supernatural in definition being something that cannot be explained by natural science.

Originally posted by rwingett
Atheists do not at any time deny the possibility of telepathy or other supernatural events. If you can provide any good evidence that they exist then we will believe in them. Until then...

Your problem is that you don't know what an atheist is.

By your definition of atheist - why would an atheist believe anything given good evidence?

Originally posted by Halitose
I see the problem being that you might only accept natural (empirical) evidence for the supernatural, which clearly means that there's no way to prove it by your criteria.

Supernatural in definition being something that cannot be explained by natural science.

Can you demonstrate the existence of your god by any means whatsoever?