10 Apr 08
1 edit
you have to forgive me, the bible isnt one of my strong points, however, unless i'm mistaken in the o.t it states "god created the heavens and the earth"...
why did god create heaven at the same time, what was the point, didnt he spend his time here? also, wasnt it only after eve (adam?) sinned that the idea of heaven being a resting place for the good came into existence?
finally, did adam and eve go to hell? if so, does that imply hell was created at the same time as heaven?
10 Apr 08
1 edit
Originally posted by eatmybishopvistesd would be a good person to respond to this or at least edit what I put forth here.
you have to forgive me, the bible isnt one of my strong points, however, unless i'm mistaken in the o.t it states "god created the heavens and the earth"...
why did god create heaven at the same time, what was the point, didnt he spend his time here? also, wasnt it only after eve (adam?) sinned that the idea of heaven being a resting place for the go ...[text shortened]... adam and eve go to hell? if so, does that imply hell was created at the same time as heaven?
If I'm not mistaking, the heavens in both Hebrew and Greek refer to space. From what I understand, the OT Jews believed there were several (7) layers of the heavens. God "occupying" the last one. As to the question of Hell being created at the same time as heaven, "the heavens and the earth" are an example of a common Semitic use of language. By referring to extremes they are connecting everything in between. So, this verse could be understood as saying, "In the beginning, God created everything that is" including hell.
If God is non-corporeal, then He does not require a location to occupy. However, after the Hebrews left Egypt, He dwelt with them in the tabernacle (see Exodus through Samuel). Then, after Solomon had the temple built, God manifested His Presence within the "Most Holy Place." Then after repeated rebellion by the people, God sent the Babylonians to capture and exile the people. Later, they returned, but the Bible never says that God returned to the temple. Later, Jesus came as the Presence of God. Upon His death, the curtain in the temple that separated man from the "Most Holy Place" was torn into symbolizing that man had direct access to God through Jesus.
Yes, the idea of paradise separate from this earth started after the fall. But according to Revelation, the earth will be transformed into a new paradise: "a new heaven and new earth."
Also, I don't think Adam and Eve went to Hell. Again, the Bible says that sin must be paid for with blood. God killed an animal and gave them the skins to wear. This was foreshadowing that God would make a later sacrifice and give them a new clothing of sorts (righteousness).
11 Apr 08
1 edit
Originally posted by eatmybishopLet me suggest a good way for you to read the Bible.
you have to forgive me, the bible isnt one of my strong points, however, unless i'm mistaken in the o.t it states "god created the heavens and the earth"...
why did god create heaven at the same time, what was the point, didnt he spend his time here? also, wasnt it only after eve (adam?) sinned that the idea of heaven being a resting place for the go ...[text shortened]... adam and eve go to hell? if so, does that imply hell was created at the same time as heaven?
Start by reading a number of times Revelation chapters 21 and 22. That is the conclusion of the divine revelation of the whole Bible. Read them aloud again. Get Revelation 21 and 22 firmly fixed in your memory. Even if you do not undertstand it all, still get all the details of it in your heart.
Now, having done that go back to Genesis and start to read through the whole Bible. Remember the destination everything is working towards is Revelation 21 and 22.
Everything God does is to arrive at Revelation 21 and 22. Keep your eyes on the final destination. Consider how all things are related to that final outcome. The New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 and 22 is where you are headed. Everything is for that. Everything is working to bring about that situation.
I suggest that you read through the Bible keeping in mind that the final climax and finale is what everything else is for in some way. God is working everything for the eternal purpose of arriving at that destination and climax as seen in the last two chapters of the Bible.
11 Apr 08
Originally posted by jaywillWhat about all those "Left Behind" books. Aren't they more fun to read than the Bible?
Let me suggest a good way for you to read the Bible.
Start by reading a number of times Revelation chapters 21 and 22. That is the conclusion of the divine revelation of the whole Bible. Read them aloud again. Get Revelation 21 and 22 firmly fixed in your memory. Even if you do not undertstand it all, still get all the details of it in your heart.
...[text shortened]... urpose of arriving at that destination and climax as seen in the last two chapters of the Bible.
12 Apr 08
Originally posted by eatmybishopyou have to forgive me, the bible isnt one of my strong points, however, unless i'm mistaken in the o.t it states "god created the heavens and the earth"...
you have to forgive me, the bible isnt one of my strong points, however, unless i'm mistaken in the o.t it states "god created the heavens and the earth"...
why did god create heaven at the same time, what was the point, didnt he spend his time here? also, wasnt it only after eve (adam?) sinned that the idea of heaven being a resting place for the go ...[text shortened]... adam and eve go to hell? if so, does that imply hell was created at the same time as heaven?
"...heaven (singular) and the earth."
Think of it this way. Before God created anything, He was all there was. Did God exist in a place? Who knows? Probably not since He is a spirit.
But, "In the beginning..." God created space, matter, and time. Hence, heaven and earth. It need not be more complicated than that.
12 Apr 08
Originally posted by kirksey957Left Behind books ?
What about all those "Left Behind" books. Aren't they more fun to read than the Bible?
Fadish, shallow, superfiscial.
I recommend none of them and have read none of them.
There is no comparison to taking in those books and diving into the Bible.
12 Apr 08
Originally posted by eatmybishopYou say good? don't you mean redeemed?
you have to forgive me, the bible isnt one of my strong points, however, unless i'm mistaken in the o.t it states "god created the heavens and the earth"...
why did god create heaven at the same time, what was the point, didnt he spend his time here? also, wasnt it only after eve (adam?) sinned that the idea of heaven being a resting place for the go ...[text shortened]... adam and eve go to hell? if so, does that imply hell was created at the same time as heaven?
14 Apr 08
I am not the font of all knowledge, but my Understanding is:
1. Adam and Eve were saved thru faith, as was Abraham (his faith was counted unto him as righteousness)
2. The Left Behind series are not biblically accurate. They only jive with the Bible if you are a dispensationalist who believes the words of one Mr. Darby, who came up with the whole rapture thing-y in the 1800s when a teenage girl in his parish asked him a question about the afterlife.
3. Before God created the heavens (there are translations of both plural and singular) and the earth, there was nothing. Therefore, He was not hanging out anywhere. The Old Testament afterlife consists of but one place, Sheol. Samuel was there and was no doubt a man of God. The separation into a place of eternal bliss (heaven) and one of eternal torment (hell) came about at the conclusion of Christ's work on earth.
14 Apr 08
Originally posted by jaywillSo God was basically wasting the time of all of Jews who were reading what is now called the Old Testament? Since they didn't have Revelation 21 and 22, they couldn't have known what the hell was going on, now could they? Oh well, it gave them something to do when not stoning people to death for various silly offenses...
Everything God does is to arrive at Revelation 21 and 22...
14 Apr 08
Originally posted by gaychessplayerhe probably is saying that jews are damned to sheol and they cannot get into heaven. because they are jews. and haven't found jesus. and aren't born again in God's true religion.
So God was basically wasting the time of all of Jews who were reading what is now called the Old Testament? Since they didn't have Revelation 21 and 22, they couldn't have known what the hell was going on, now could they? Oh well, it gave them something to do when not stoning people to death for various silly offenses...