Originally posted by josephw When I said "maybe not" I wasn't disputing your claim of unconversion, just its validity. Actually, I wasn't really referring to your personal experience of unlearning. I was referring to whether or not one actually experienced a net gain in intelligence because they claim to have "unlearned" "fiction" and "error". What if they just think so, but in fact only learned more fiction and error?
I don't need you to approve of what happened to me or to agree with its outcome, so I am not sure what point you are making. My answer to Grampy Bobby was true with regard to my beliefs and a process that I underwent. You're a Christian and I'm not, so - if your point is that you and I believe different things - then forgive me if I don't see it as being a particularly interesting point for you to be making in a discussion like this.
Originally posted by josephw Case in point! Now it seems, you relabeled long held theology with ideology, and now think you've arrived beyond fiction and error as it relates to the truth of God's Word.
Well no one will be seeking to dispute the fact that you and I have different opinions regarding what is or isn't "the truth of God's Word". And I can hardly imagine that anyone will be seeking to dispute the fact that theology is a form of ideology.
Originally posted by FMF I don't need you to approve of what happened to me or to agree with its outcome, so I am not sure what point you are making. My answer to Grampy Bobby was true with regard to my beliefs and a process that I underwent. You're a Christian and I'm not, so - if your point is that you and I believe different things - then forgive me if I don't see it as being a particularly interesting point for you to be making in a discussion like this.
You don't need my approval. Wasn't offering any. But I am being critical about your notion of what it means to "unlearn" fictions and errors. In particular what you said you unlearned, and what you replaced it with.
I don't take anything you say personally. I'm not offended, so there's nothing to forgive.
I'm not arguing against the idea of the process of unlearning as prescribed in the OP, just that it doesn't validate that one necessarily gained in intelligence(or wisdom)even after a lifetime engaged in it.
If what one knows isn't the truth, then it's of no value. Isn't that the point? That's all I'm trying to say! 😉
Originally posted by FMF Well no one will be seeking to dispute the fact that you and I have different opinions regarding what is or isn't "the truth of God's Word". And I can hardly imagine that anyone will be seeking to dispute the fact that theology is a form of ideology.
Well, one can always find someone to dispute anything, especially when it seems everyone has their own terms and definitions.
God is Truth. Truth makes one free. God's terms, conditions and definitions. Without God there is no unity of Truth. Only confusion.
I'm an absolute Jesus freak FMF, and not ashamed to admit it. 😉 It is NOT strange to me that others don't share in my firm conviction that God's Word is infallible and the source of absolute Truth concerning all matters of life and living.
Originally posted by josephw [b]Hey Ghost, I see you just joined the site. I want to welcome you here. I noticed in your profile the statement, "and so it begins".
So it does. Again and again! 😉
Been hashing out these things in here for years.
But consider the existence of life and the universe though. Wouldn't that be evidence for the existence of a creator God being? The proble ...[text shortened]... exists because the existence of a being that made us makes us accountable for the evil that exists.
Thanks for the welcome.
The 'and so it begins' relates to me joining this site after 14 years on another chess site. - A change is as good as a holiday. 😉
I can be outspoken at times about religion, but please do not think i do so in ignorance. My degree (many moons ago) was in Theology and i have always been seeking answers (although studying religion resulted in more questions).
Yes, people often point to the wonders of life and the universe as clear evidence for the existence of an all powerful, all loving God. The problem is, the world is also filled with horrible things that are difficult to reconcile with such a deity. Not all evil is man made (earthquakes etc) and not all creatures (great and small) are particularly great. That parasite, for example, comes to mind, that turns an ant into a zombie and pushes a spore out of its head. - Why would a benevolent creator create such things?
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Thanks for the welcome.
The 'and so it begins' relates to me joining this site after 14 years on another chess site. - A change is as good as a holiday. 😉
I can be outspoken at times about religion, but please do not think i do so in ignorance. My degree (many moons ago) was in Theology and i have always been seeking answers (although studying ...[text shortened]... zombie and pushes a spore out of its head. - Why would a benevolent creator create such things?
Let's play a game sometime.
"Why would a benevolent creator create such things?"
Such a question! The implication is that God "created" evil, which is beyond reason if you stop to think about it. God wouldn't be who He is if He had created evil. I think the real question is why does God continue to allow evil?
The short answer is there's a timetable, and series of events that need to transpire. Then an end will be put to evil forever.
The long answer is fairly short as well. Only 783,137 words long. 😉
Originally posted by josephw Let's play a game sometime.
[b]"Why would a benevolent creator create such things?"
Such a question! The implication is that God "created" evil, which is beyond reason if you stop to think about it. God wouldn't be who He is if He had created evil. I think the real question is why does God continue to allow evil?
The short answer is there's a t ...[text shortened]... be put to evil forever.
The long answer is fairly short as well. Only 783,137 words long. 😉[/b]
The parasite i spoke of was not inherently 'evil' but is itself part of creation, no less so than a dog or a hippopotamus. My question was really asking, why would an all loving creator bring into existence (create) a creature so horrible and repugnant. (All creatures great and small, the Lord God made them all).
Couldn't the timetable you speak of be an 'evolutionary timetable'? At least that would be a deity i could get on board with.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Thanks for the welcome.
The 'and so it begins' relates to me joining this site after 14 years on another chess site. - A change is as good as a holiday. 😉
I can be outspoken at times about religion, but please do not think i do so in ignorance. My degree (many moons ago) was in Theology and i have always been seeking answers (although studying ...[text shortened]... zombie and pushes a spore out of its head. - Why would a benevolent creator create such things?
All things are from Spirit (god), the fact that you see some as good and some as not so good just relates to your thinking.
From a different point of view you may see harmony and perfection in all the universe.
However I do admit this easier said than done
edit: and then again thinking some things are harder than others is also a schism that should be avoided.
Originally posted by josephw Hey Ghost, I see you just joined the site. I want to welcome you here. I noticed in your profile the statement, "and so it begins".
So it does. Again and again! 😉
Been hashing out these things in here for years.
[b]"Many would view the existence of evil in the world (especially evil not caused by man) as evidence that God does not exist."
We ...[text shortened]... r evidence that the account of scripture is true.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! 😉[/b]
So all the mutations and two headed people and such is proof of the existence of god?
Originally posted by josephw If what one knows isn't the truth, then it's of no value. Isn't that the point? That's all I'm trying to say! 😉
No value? I have good reason to think that you asserting over and over again on a message board that what you believe is "the truth" and that what others believe is not "the truth" has some value to you. Presumably that is the point for you.
Originally posted by FMF I can hardly imagine that anyone will be seeking to dispute the fact that theology is a form of ideology.
Originally posted by josephw Well, one can always find someone to dispute anything, especially when it seems everyone has their own terms and definitions.
So you are disputing the suggestion that competing theologies are forms of ideology? I think it is uncontroversial.
Originally posted by josephw I'm an absolute Jesus freak FMF, and not ashamed to admit it. 😉 It is NOT strange to me that others don't share in my firm conviction that God's Word is infallible and the source of absolute Truth concerning all matters of life and living.
My response to Grampy Bobby's point 2 in the OP was true with regard to me and my beliefs and the process that I underwent. This is unaffected by whether or not you are a "Jesus freak".
Three Rhetorical Questions
21 Mar '15 17:53
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