Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    13 Feb '19 21:521 edit
    Imagining the vastness of time is pretty much
    beyond our feeble minds but this video will help.

    Why in Spirituality and not Science?

    Well it seems to me that a lot of you guys
    have trouble with evolution because you
    don't appreciate how slowly things happen.

    Take a look.

    Please.

    YouTube
  2. Joined
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    13 Feb '19 21:581 edit
    @wolfgang59 said
    Imagining the vastness of time is pretty much
    beyond our feeble minds but this video will help.

    Why in Spirituality and not Science?

    Well it seems to me that a lot of you guys
    have trouble with evolution because you
    don't appreciate how slowly things happen.

    Take a look.

    Please.

    [youtube]dI7SbZx_Qiw[/youtube]
    Got as far as when he mentioned "billions".

    What does that have to do with the 6000 or so years that the universe has existed?

    Nice try.
  3. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Feb '19 23:13
    Time is the only thing besides God that might approach something like "limitlessness. "

    And i think from a secular, empirical epistemology, it's the only thing that can be argued as being eternal.
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    13 Feb '19 23:39
    @philokalia said
    Time is the only thing besides God that might approach something like "limitlessness. "

    And i think from a secular, empirical epistemology, it's the only thing that can be argued as being eternal.
    Is there time with no matter and space?
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    14 Feb '19 00:08
    @kellyjay said
    Is there time with no matter and space?
    Good question. I can't say.

    But I would say that in some atheistic model, even if heat death occurs, and matter is dead and lifeless and expanding into nothingness and energy is never gathered back together again to be meaningful to life...

    Time would continue without end.

    Right?

    I guess an appropriate question would be whether or not time exists without life to process it.
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    14 Feb '19 00:18
    @philokalia said
    Good question. I can't say.

    But I would say that in some atheistic model, even if heat death occurs, and matter is dead and lifeless and expanding into nothingness and energy is never gathered back together again to be meaningful to life...

    Time would continue without end.

    Right?

    I guess an appropriate question would be whether or not time exists without life to process it.
    What would time be without matter and space, nothing moving, no where to be?
  7. Joined
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    14 Feb '19 00:29
    @wolfgang59 said
    Imagining the vastness of time is pretty much
    beyond our feeble minds but this video will help.

    Why in Spirituality and not Science?

    Well it seems to me that a lot of you guys
    have trouble with evolution because you
    don't appreciate how slowly things happen.

    Take a look.

    Please.

    [youtube]dI7SbZx_Qiw[/youtube]
    Slowly? Cambrian explosion ring a bell?

    Try again.
  8. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    14 Feb '19 01:59
    @kellyjay said
    What would time be without matter and space, nothing moving, no where to be?
    Right...

    Time implies that there is something happening or that there at least exists something that something is happening to.

    So maybe... Time cannot be said to exist for a thing that does not exist.

    For instance, is there an infinite amount of time that also exists in the non-existent universe where I am as exactly as I am and the world is exactly how it is except I am a falcon with elephant ears for wings and a human head?

    Of course not... Infinite time does not exist in a place that does not exist....

    I wonder... Can we ever say that an imagined place exists as an imagined place... And that the "time" within an imagined place, if it is imagined to be eternal, has an imagined eternal time...

    I am sorry. I have no access to Mary Juana here and I have to use these opportunities to think like this as much as I can.
  9. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    14 Feb '19 02:31
    @kellyjay said
    What would time be without matter and space, nothing moving, no where to be?
    Time cannot exist without space.
  10. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    14 Feb '19 02:41
    @handyandy said
    Time cannot exist without space.
    Can space exist without time?
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    14 Feb '19 03:28
    @philokalia said
    Can space exist without time?
    When? 🙂
  12. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    14 Feb '19 06:13
    @whodey said
    Slowly? Cambrian explosion ring a bell?

    Try again.
    Yes - evolution was working particularly fast then.
    Most phyla appeared in a brief period of time.
    By brief I mean 20 MILLION YEARS.
    That was the Cambrian Explosion.

    20 MILLION YEARS


    Try again.
  13. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    14 Feb '19 08:47
    @philokalia said
    Can space exist without time?
    No.
  14. Stargazing
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    14 Feb '19 09:051 edit
    @wolfgang59 said
    Imagining the vastness of time is pretty much
    beyond our feeble minds but this video will help.

    Why in Spirituality and not Science?

    Well it seems to me that a lot of you guys
    have trouble with evolution because you
    don't appreciate how slowly things happen.

    Take a look.

    Please.

    [youtube]dI7SbZx_Qiw[/youtube]
    Interesting video, I love stuff like this.

    At the end he says “the moral of the story is that most things happened a long time ago”. This isn’t the moral, as there isn’t one, also he is incorrect as he’s just spent the entire video explaining that most things happened in the last fraction of a millimetre. In fact pretty most stuff occurred after the extinction level event which destroyed the dinosaurs.

    Furthermore, is it inferred that all that time was needed to get to the present situation of present day? Clearly it wasn’t needed as something occured in the near past which accelerated the development of life on earth. I’m not at this point saying it was supernatural, I’m just looking at the evidence presented in the video.
  15. Joined
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    15 Feb '19 22:551 edit
    @wolfgang59 said
    Yes - evolution was working particularly fast then.
    Most phyla appeared in a brief period of time.
    By brief I mean 20 MILLION YEARS.
    That was the Cambrian Explosion.

    20 MILLION YEARS


    Try again.
    Life seem to have sprung on the scene almost as soon as the Earth existed.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/life-may-have-originated-earth-4-billion-years-ago-study-controversial-fossils-suggests

    In 1992, researchers discovered evidence of what was then potentially the earliest life on Earth: 3.5-billion-year-old microscopic squiggles encased in Australian rocks. Since then, however, scientists have debated whether these imprints truly represent ancient microorganisms, and even if they do, whether they’re really that old. Now, a comprehensive analysis of these microfossils suggests that these formations do indeed represent ancient microbes, ones potentially so complex that life on our planet must have originated some 500 million years earlier.

    The new work indicates these early microorganisms were surprisingly sophisticated, capable of photosynthesis and of using other chemical processes to get energy, says Birger Rasmussen, a geobiologist at Curtin University in Perth, Australia, who was not involved with the work. The study “will probably touch off a flurry of new research into these rocks as other researchers look for data that either support or disprove this new assertion,” adds Alison Olcott Marshall, a geobiologist at the University of Kansas in Lawrence who was not involved in the effort.

    In the new study, William Schopf, a paleobiologist at the University of California, Los Angeles—and the discoverer of the Australian microfossils—teamed up with John Valley, a geoscientist at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. Valley is an expert in an analytical technique called secondary ion mass spectrometry (SIMS), which can determine the ratio of different forms of carbon in a sample—key to gauging whether it’s organic.


    Schopf spent 4 months working with microscopes to find a thin slice of the rock that contains the fossils with specimens accessible enough to study with SIMS; that sample contained 11 microfossils whose diversity of shapes and sizes suggested they represented five species of microbes. He also provided samples of rock containing no putative fossils for comparison.





    New evidence supports that these “squiggles” represent early life.
    J. William Schopf, UCLA

    The analysis detected several distinct carbon ratios in the material, Schopf, Valley, and colleagues report today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Two types of microfossils had the same carbon ratio as modern bacteria that use light to make carbon compounds that fuel their activities—a primitive photosynthesis that did not involve oxygen. Two other types of microfossils had the same carbon ratios as microbes known as archaea that depend on methane as their energy source—and that played a pivotal role in the development of multicellular life. The ratio of a final type of microfossil indicated that this organism produced methane as part of its metabolism.

    That there are so many different carbon ratios strengthens the case that these are real fossils, Schopf says. Any inorganic processes that could have created the squiggles would be expected to leave a uniform carbon ratio signature, he says. The fact that microbes were already so diverse at this point in Earth’s history also suggests that life on our planet may date back to 4 billion years ago, he says. Other researchers have found signs of life dating back at least that far, but those findings are even more controversial than Schopf’s.

    “The new results add weight to the idea that the microstructures are biological,” Rasmussen agrees. But he is concerned that the microfossils may have been badly preserved. Olcott Marshall, who thinks the rock impressions are not fossils at all, but the product of geological processes, is even more critical: “The errors produced by this analytical technique are so large” that the data are not clear enough to say there are different types of microbes in rock, she says.

    But SIMS experts praise the work. “It was a really careful, well thought out experiment,” says Lara Gamble, a chemist at the University of Washington in Seattle who was not involved in the study. “They put in a lot of effort to try to make sure everything was calibrated properly.”

    Rasmussen hopes there will follow-up work that analyzes more microfossils. “It’s worth getting this right, given that we are looking at some of the oldest possible traces of life,” he says. “Honing our skills at recognizing ancient biosignatures on Earth is important as we cast our eyes to Mars and beyond.”
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