1. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Jul '14 09:41
    Suppose that you are correct that ancient religion was created by man to control other people and that man dic evolve from apes and other animals over billions of years, then which of the ancient religions do you believe did the best to motivate the people to do what you believe is right today?
  2. Subscribersonhouse
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    17 Jul '14 10:10
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Suppose that you are correct that ancient religion was created by man to control other people and that man dic evolve from apes and other animals over billions of years, then which of the ancient religions do you believe did the best to motivate the people to do what you believe is right today?
    One of the positive effects of religion is to engender a sense of well being, even if false, that is, till they tell you to take these weapons and kill those other people over there, they are not really people, just above animals so it's ok to kill those rotten Hindu's.


    Of course you KNOW all your givens in that argument is just bogus so why do you bother?
  3. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Jul '14 10:45
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    One of the positive effects of religion is to engender a sense of well being, even if false, that is, till they tell you to take these weapons and kill those other people over there, they are not really people, just above animals so it's ok to kill those rotten Hindu's.


    Of course you KNOW all your givens in that argument is just bogus so why do you bother?
    It is my effort to understand your thinking. Do you really believe that teaching children that they are evolved apes and some are more evolved than others is better than teaching them that they have been created equally in the image of a perfect God?

    What is wrong with teaching children that God loves all of them and wants them to love all other children too?
  4. Standard memberCalJust
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    17 Jul '14 12:141 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Do you really believe that teaching children that they are evolved apes and some are more evolved than others is better than teaching them that they have been created equally in the image of a perfect God?

    What is wrong with teaching children that God loves all of them and wants them to love all other children too?
    Your second question has nothing to do with your first question.

    Of course you must teach children that god loves them AND even their kid brother and the girl across the road.

    But to teach them that poems and allegories are actually real literal facts, will cause them later in life when they find out that you have been lying to them to abandon everything else that they were taught - even that God loves them.
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Jul '14 20:211 edit
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Your second question has nothing to do with your first question.

    Of course you must teach children that god loves them AND even their kid brother and the girl across the road.

    But to teach them that poems and allegories are actually real literal facts, will cause them later in life when they find out that you have been lying to them to abandon everything else that they were taught - even that God loves them.
    I said nothing about teaching children that poems and allegories are literal facts. However, we know that poems are often about literal facts, so we should not teach that they are false if we don't know. We do know that scientist have been wrong in the past and that there is much that they still don't know. So we should not teach children that scientists know all the facts on everything either.

    But why do so many parents continue to teach the Santa Claus myth to kids when they know it is a lie?
  6. Subscribersonhouse
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    17 Jul '14 20:28
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I said nothing about teaching children that poems and allegories are literal facts. However, we know that poems are often about literal facts, so we should not teach that they are false if we don't know. We do know that scientist have been wrong in the past and that there is much that they still don't know. So we should not teach children that scientists ...[text shortened]... hy do so many parents continue to teach the Santa Claus myth to kids when they know it is a lie?
    So why do you continue to act as if the WW flood was real and the world was made in 6 literal days? BTW, that literal view of the OT started around the 18th century. They were mostly thought of as allegory before then.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Jul '14 21:19
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So why do you continue to act as if the WW flood was real and the world was made in 6 literal days? BTW, that literal view of the OT started around the 18th century. They were mostly thought of as allegory before then.
    The Worldwide Flood was real and the the world was made in 6 literal days.

    An allegorical interpretation of Genesis is a reading of the biblical Book of Genesis that treats elements of the narrative as symbols or types. For example, Genesis 3 introduces a talking serpent, which many Christians understand to be Satan in disguise. This symbolism is accepted even by Christians who believe the story as a whole is based on a historical event. Many Christians in ancient times regarded the early chapters of Genesis to be true as both history and allegory.

    Early Christians seem to have been divided over whether to interpret the days of creation in Genesis 1 as literal days, or to understand them allegorically.

    For example, St. Basil rejected an allegorical interpretation in his Hexaëmeron, and affirmed 24-hour creation days:

    I know the laws of allegory, though less by myself than from the works of others. There are those truly, who do not admit the common sense of the Scriptures, for whom water is not water, but some other nature, who see in a plant, in a fish, what their fancy wishes, who change the nature of reptiles and of wild beasts to suit their allegories, like the interpreters of dreams who explain visions in sleep to make them serve their own ends. For me grass is grass; plant, fish, wild beast, domestic animal, I take all in the literal sense. 'For I am not ashamed of the Gospel' [Romans 1:16].


    'And there was evening and there was morning: one day.' And the evening and the morning were one day. Why does Scripture say 'one day the first day'? Before speaking to us of the second, the third, and the fourth days, would it not have been more natural to call that one the first which began the series? If it therefore says 'one day,' it is from a wish to determine the measure of day and night, and to combine the time that they contain. Now twenty-four hours fill up the space of one day -- we mean of a day and of a night; and if, at the time of the solstices, they have not both an equal length, the time marked by Scripture does not the less circumscribe their duration. It is as though it said: twenty-four hours measure the space of a day, or that, in reality a day is the time that the heavens starting from one point take to return there. Thus, every time that, in the revolution of the sun, evening and morning occupy the world, their periodical succession never exceeds the space of one day.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretations_of_Genesis
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    17 Jul '14 21:25
    I am SO not getting into the middle of this.

    *gets the popcorn ready*
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    18 Jul '14 04:13
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Worldwide Flood was real and the the world was made in 6 literal days.

    An allegorical interpretation of Genesis is a reading of the biblical Book of Genesis that treats elements of the narrative as symbols or types. For example, Genesis 3 introduces a talking serpent, which many Christians understand to be Satan in disguise. This symbolism i ...[text shortened]... ce of one day.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretations_of_Genesis
    My understanding of the "WW flood" is that it was actually regional. The world of the Hebrew patriarchs, is the area that was flooded. Black Sea to the Med. if I recall correctly.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    18 Jul '14 05:392 edits
    Originally posted by Pudgenik
    My understanding of the "WW flood" is that it was actually regional. The world of the Hebrew patriarchs, is the area that was flooded. Black Sea to the Med. if I recall correctly.
    Your understanding is wrong. You need to read the account in the Holy Bible.

    Evidence That Noah's Flood Really Happened

    YouTube

    Worldwide Evidence for Noah's Flood

    YouTube
  11. Subscribersonhouse
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    18 Jul '14 12:52
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Your understanding is wrong. You need to read the account in the Holy Bible.

    Evidence That Noah's Flood Really Happened

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGfyyozUg-8

    Worldwide Evidence for Noah's Flood

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9-H4j-iYz4
    Here we go again, pseudoscience at its worse. So your god, being the being of grace that it is, decides to kill ALL the land animals just to get to a few thousand bad humans, then devises a plan to save the nice humans and 2 of each animal, so this god, not knowing about genetic diversity, cripples the entire population of humans and animals with a near death lack of genetic diversity and called them saved. Is that about it?

    Of course the literalists are required to ignore such evidence as the really large genetic diversity of most land animals and the fact that humans do have a rather low diversity index but not from the flood but from the fact humans were close to extinction long before this bogus ww flood myth, down to under 20 folks and our genetic diversity shows that fact. Land animals have a much deeper genetic diversity, clearly showing there was no such event that wiped out all the land animals.

    So you literalists have no choice but to call that just another vast conspiracy to force evolution down your throats by force if needed.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    18 Jul '14 16:03
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Here we go again, pseudoscience at its worse. So your god, being the being of grace that it is, decides to kill ALL the land animals just to get to a few thousand bad humans, then devises a plan to save the nice humans and 2 of each animal, so this god, not knowing about genetic diversity, cripples the entire population of humans and animals with a near dea ...[text shortened]... call that just another vast conspiracy to force evolution down your throats by force if needed.
    God know more about all this than any of us. So you are just talking crap again.
  13. Subscribersonhouse
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    21 Jul '14 14:26
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    God know more about all this than any of us. So you are just talking crap again.
    Well then, why don't you have this so-called god come down to our level and explain it to us ALL at the same time so we don't have to get it second hand from some mushroom besotted prophet?
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    21 Jul '14 22:21
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Well then, why don't you have this so-called god come down to our level and explain it to us ALL at the same time so we don't have to get it second hand from some mushroom besotted prophet?
    Why do you think a sinner like me would have any control over God that I could command Him to do anything?
  15. Subscribersonhouse
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    21 Jul '14 23:27
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Why do you think a sinner like me would have any control over God that I could command Him to do anything?
    For the same reason that NO human can command ANY god. IF there is a god or god's it is clear as the hair on the end of your nose they don't give a rats ass about humans otherwise they would have seen the moral corruptness of the hundred million people killed in WW2. NOTHING from your god about that. Not a god I would EVER want to worship. Oh, wait, I know. You are going to pull the free will card. Which fails completely.
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