to the non believers...

Originally posted by eatmybishop
to the non believers...

The name of this thread is: "to the non believers..."

I am a believer, everyone is believers. In something. Religiously or not.

I believe that 1 and 1 equals 2, yes, I believe that this is the truth.

If I believe in some things and you don't believe in the same thing, then you are the non believer. If I see some things as a truth and you don't, then you are the one that is a denier.

This is what religion is all about - to believe. Have faith in that the thing they believe is the Truth, not having any need to prove it.

And we all believe things that are not need to be proven. So what is a believer?

Why do you call me a non believer when I only believe in other things than you do? Is your belief stronger than mine, or truer than mine?

Are you a better person than me if you call me a non believer? Are you really denying me my right to believe differently than you? Some even think they are so very much better than people with other beliefs so that take their right to kill them? Go to war and kill innocent people, of the sole reason that they believe and the other beliefs in other things, that other believes in false things?

You have the right to believe as you want, I respect you for that. But only if you give me, and all other, the same respect to believe in my/their way, to believe in things that I/they hold sacred.

My point is - Show me one person who doesn't believe in anything, show me a non believer.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
what would it actually take god to do to make you accept he/she is real?

Everyone is a believer, but in what is the real question.
Kely

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Give a message that cannot be missunderstood. Like rearranging the stars into words that says "god did this" or something. He can do it, he is alwighty. But he won't. He can't. Because he isn't.

Such a message might be given without coming from God. It's perfectly consistent with any of various hypotheses, including the infamous "brain in a vat" argument; or someone might be lying in a coma imagining everything, including the other "independent" witnesses to such a miracle.

More fundamentally, I don't think that the idea of "God" makes any sense. Clearly the term, at least as it is conventionally used, intends something beyond the mere creator of the universe. It implies a being which wants and/or demands to be worshipped, and that to me is completely inconsistent with sanity and with the concept of an advanced being, whether "almighty" or not.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Then there is nothing more to discuss.

But what if the text among the stars was 'Allah was here', would every christian become muslim then? Or 'Buddha rules'? Or 'Krishna owns'?

I give him a week from now. If no non-interpretable sign among the stars until then, then it is a proof that no god is there. And I am right. I dare you, god!

Tomorrow it has gone a week. He has only one day left.

Until now, I keep looking at the stars, every night, but the stars look the same as the last night. No message there.

But of course, he has time left. Perhaps he do something with the stars, rearrange them into a message, or something. Something that will make me to be a true believer. He can do it in a split second so he has no problem with it.

I still think that he doesn't do it. Why? Because there is nothing such as a god. The proof for this will come within 24 hours.

If a voice booms from the heavens saying "no one on planet Earth will die on April 15th, 2008", and, on April 15th, 2008, not one person on Earth dies, then it might be possible to believe that God exists. But until then....

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Tomorrow it has gone a week. He has only one day left.

Until now, I keep looking at the stars, every night, but the stars look the same as the last night. No message there.

But of course, he has time left. Perhaps he do something with the stars, rearrange them into a message, or something. Something that will make me to be a true believer. He can do ...[text shortened]... it. Why? Because there is nothing such as a god. The proof for this will come within 24 hours.

I haven't seen any message yet.
But I am a generous man.
When the sun sets tonight and there is still no message from anyone written in the stars, then I think we have a proof, a clean cut proof.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I haven't seen any message yet.
But I am a generous man.
When the sun sets tonight and there is still no message from anyone written in the stars, then I think we have a proof, a clean cut proof.

Proof of what? That there doesn't exist an omnipotent God who wants to convince you of his existence via the method of your choosing? Thats about the most you can conclude.

I wonder what we would do if after mapping the locations of the stars we realize that it does in fact spell out a message in some alien language directed at some other planet. That would really put a hole in our egos.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Proof of what? That there doesn't exist an omnipotent God who wants to convince you of his existence via the method of your choosing? Thats about the most you can conclude.

I wonder what we would do if after mapping the locations of the stars we realize that it does in fact spell out a message in some alien language directed at some other planet. That would really put a hole in our egos.

If you've read the whole thread, you'd probably read the first posting too: "what would it actually take god to do to make you accept he/she is real?"

Then you'd probably read the answers to that too.

My point is that if he sent a message to the humankind which cannot be intrerpreted otherwise than a true non-scientific miracle. He hasn't done so yet and therefore he can't be.

...unless I see something remarkable in the night sky later this day.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
My point is that if he sent a message to the humankind which cannot be intrerpreted otherwise than a true non-scientific miracle. He hasn't done so yet and therefore he can't be.

...unless I see something remarkable in the night sky later this day.

As I said, your conclusion is wrong. All you can conclude from the absence of a message is that there is no God that is able to and desires to send you that particular message in that particular way. I don't think that anyone in this thread or elsewhere claims that a being who desires to send you such a message exists, so your proof is pointless.

Originally posted by twhitehead
As I said, your conclusion is wrong. All you can conclude from the absence of a message is that there is no God that is able to and desires to send you that particular message in that particular way. I don't think that anyone in this thread or elsewhere claims that a being who desires to send you such a message exists, so your proof is pointless.

So he doesn't want me to be christian? He doesn't want to give a true miracle that cannot be explained by science in any way, thus proving his existance, although he can easily do that?

He did it in the biblical times if you believe the bible to be his word. So he has done it before, but he cannot do it now? He is not omnipotent and allmighty any longer? Too bad... Perhaps getting old...

Well, anyway, I wait to the night, then I'll go outside and look up in the sky. It is more probable that I can see some advertisment of Coca Cola painted on the moon than som godly message...

God, if you exist, please give the sign if you exist!

Originally posted by knightmeister
There would be a lot to discuss actually . You would know he is there but you would still have to get to know him.

Also , don't forget that human beings can talk themselves out of anything if they want to. One might say it was a conspiracy done by NASA or a hoax . Maybe people would say that they were hallucinating or some subliminal message had been out through our TV sets.

Also , don't forget that human beings can talk themselves out of anything if they want to.

Or into anything.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So he doesn't want me to be christian? He doesn't want to give a true miracle that cannot be explained by science in any way, thus proving his existance, although he can easily do that?

Well you have proved (or probably will have by tonight) that he doesn't want to do so in the way you want.

He did it in the biblical times if you believe the bible to be his word. So he has done it before, but he cannot do it now? He is not omnipotent and allmighty any longer? Too bad... Perhaps getting old...
Or for many other possible reasons.
But your claim that lack of the sign you want is proof that God does not exist remains false.
To give an analogy:
George W Bush is capable of saying something on TV.
George W Bush may want to attack Zimbabwe.
George W Bush exists.
If you demand that George Bush tells you on TV in the next 5 days whether or not he plans to attack Zimbabwe and you get no response from him despite regularly checking on your TV, you will not have prooved any of:
George W Bush doesn't exist.
George W Bush cant say things on TV
George W Bush doesn't want to attach Zimbabwe.
You will only have prooved that George W Bush, if he exists, does not want to tell you on TV, just yet, whether or not he wishes to attack Zimbabwe. In fact, he may even have said it on TV when you weren't watching.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Well you have proved (or probably will have by tonight) that he doesn't want to do so in the way you want.

[b]He did it in the biblical times if you believe the bible to be his word. So he has done it before, but he cannot do it now? He is not omnipotent and allmighty any longer? Too bad... Perhaps getting old...
Or for many other possible reasons ishes to attack Zimbabwe. In fact, he may even have said it on TV when you weren't watching.[/b]

You compare Bush with god? 😀 Well, I don't.

Dont you get it!!!
I am God bow down to me...
Why did I feel like a Pharao...
The proof of God, their isnt any.
The proof of non existing God. their isnt any.
Comes down to belif doesnt it.
I belive in God but can prove or disprove no I cant.
It is more on a filosofical note, ( I know I misspelled that.)
the belife makes it self known to day atleast here in the west...
In the middle east it is more on belife of what the bible says in worbatum.

Originally posted by theprotectors
Dont you get it!!!
I am God bow down to me...
Why did I feel like a Pharao...
The proof of God, their isnt any.
The proof of non existing God. their isnt any.
Comes down to belif doesnt it.
I belive in God but can prove or disprove no I cant.
It is more on a filosofical note, ( I know I misspelled that.)
the belife makes it self known to day a ...[text shortened]... here in the west...
In the middle east it is more on belife of what the bible says in worbatum.

Oh, sorry, I didn't know *you* were the god. 😞
(Perhaps this was the proof I needed... God playes chess on internet...)