To What Extent Does Free Will Exist?

Originally posted by black beetle
I have no other way to explain that the decision making system does not stand above the free will of the decision maker
😵

bb, does it possibly "stand" within " the free will of the decision maker"?

Originally posted by black beetle
I have no other way to explain that the decision making system does not stand above the free will of the decision maker
😵

I'm falling back on my somewhat ill-defined notion that regardless of whether we can firmly establish some notion of free will -- where the will is free of whatever it is that would make it unfree -- that is consistent with our intuitive cause-and-effect structuring of reality, we have to make decisions, and have to deal with how those decisions affect the cause-and-effect train of events in our lives. Being convinced that they are not free decision doesn't make the effects go away.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

So it does not matter how much a beautiful woman flirts with him, he's not
going to find her desirable. Now if someone who hates all gay men were
to put a gun to his head and tell him to 'prove' that he's not homosexual
by having sexual intercourse with this woman...
I, for one, would like to prove that I am not a homosexual.
Where can I find this gay-hating man, please?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by JS357
[b]Perhaps some examples of coercive situations would help. Does the Bible have any?

Peer Pressure (do or not do this or that or you won't be in our club; or we'll ignore you); Sexual Coercion (boss demanding sexual favors from an employee; or a teacher from a student; or incestuous activity within the privacy o ...[text shortened]... n toward recalcitrant segments within a country or between countries over territorial claims....[/b]

So coercion may be present, but may be ineffective, right?

Originally posted by JS357
So coercion may be present, but may be ineffective, right?

Coercion (whether effective or ineffective) attempts to interfere with, alter or delay the exercise of free will; the extent to which it does or doesn't is determined by the invisible resistance of the volition (or decision maker in the person's soul).

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Coercion (whether effective or ineffective) attempts to interfere with, alter or delay the exercise of free will; the extent to which it does or doesn't is determined by the invisible resistance of the volition (or decision maker in the person's soul).

Sounds like the typical television advertisement.

Originally posted by JS357
Sounds like the typical television advertisement.

Understandably: we live our lives within the context of a world populated
with functionaries and elected 'leaders' driven by power lust and control.

Originally posted by JS357
I'm falling back on my somewhat ill-defined notion that regardless of whether we can firmly establish some notion of free will -- where the will is free of whatever it is that would make it unfree -- that is consistent with our intuitive cause-and-effect structuring of reality, we have to make decisions, and have to deal with how those decisions affect the cau ...[text shortened]... in our lives. Being convinced that they are not free decision doesn't make the effects go away.

The concept of randomly generated alternative possibilities for decision making processes and thus for action as regards the animals and the human beings, is presented well by Martin Heisenberg amongst else (Is Free Will an Illusion?, Nature, 459, May 2009).

Anyway, since our emotions, our thought patterns and our cognitive apparatus as a whole allow us to exploit our decision making process and take action on specific choices for which we are the sole responsible in full, I conclude that the human brain has volition thanks to a temporal sequence of randomness at first, and then of a law-like selection. Indeed, I ‘m sure my thoughts come to me freely and I ‘m aware of the fact that my actions are created from me willfully
😵

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
bb, does it possibly "stand" within " the free will of the decision maker"?

Methinks it would be more accurate to define it as a "decision making process" instead of a "decision making mechanism", for I actually see it as a property of the mind😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Methinks it would be more accurate to define it as a "decision making process" instead of a "decision making mechanism", for I actually see it as a property of the mind😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Methinks it would be more accurate to define it as a "decision making process" instead of a "decision making mechanism", for I actually see it as a property of the mind😵

bb and gb agree... as long as the phrase "decision making" remains.

Note: By the way, where did the word "mechanism" come from?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by black beetle
Methinks it would be more accurate to define it as a "decision making process" instead of a "decision making mechanism", for I actually see it as a property of the mind😵

bb and gb agree... as long as the phrase "decision making" remains.

Note: By the way, where did the word "mechanism" come from?

It came oh the horror from my broken English alone. But, since my opinion as regards the free will issue is how is it possible to overcome a particular lack of freedom of the human brain from various deterministic worries, I have to face our JS357 by means of talking about a process instead of a determination-related mechanism. This way it seems to me that I get rid of all kinds of complete pre-determinism, but I expect JS to come back strong😵

Originally posted by RJHinds
Could it be simplified even more so a redneck moron like me could understand?

No

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Note: He would reply were he allowed to...

That hasn't stopped him from posting on this thread...

Misplaced indignation?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"RHP/Spirituality Forum Reference Section" (Page 2)

Christianity:

1. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)

1.2. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son in ...[text shortened]... and environment, neither decision was coerced. Free Will was exercised with consequences.[/b]

If you want to bring in Christianity here, how about the following interferences of God in our Free Will:

Negative: And God Hardened the heart of Pharao, so that he would not let the Israelites go - with disastrous results for him and his people

Positive: "I will put my Spirit on them and write my laws on their heart, and cause them to walk in my ways".

Please don't just reply with Bible verses which show Free Will, e.g. " Chose you this day whom you will serve", and "Whosoever will, etc etc" because I know they are there. Just explain to us why God overrides your Free Will, and why.