1. SubscriberWajoma
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    24 Sep '06 03:01
    Since it's Sunday, time for some family values.

    This from Genesis 19

    32 Come, let's make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve our father's seed."

    33 They made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father. He didn't know when she lay down, nor when she arose.

    34 It came to pass on the next day, that the firstborn said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine again, tonight. You go in, and lie with him, that we may preserve our father's seed."

    35 They made their father drink wine that night also. The younger went and lay with him. He didn't know when she lay down, nor when she got up.

    36 Thus both of Lot's daughters were with child by their father.

    Guess it's supposed to be uplifting....I just feel sick.
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    24 Sep '06 03:07
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    Since it's Sunday, time for some family values.

    This from Genesis 19

    32 Come, let's make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve our father's seed."

    33 They made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father. He didn't know when she lay down, nor when she arose.

    34 It came to p ...[text shortened]... th child by their father.

    Guess it's supposed to be uplifting....I just feel sick.
    Why would you think that is suppose to be uplifting?

    There are verses in the Bible I wouldn't want to read out loud in a
    church service simply because they are sort of crude and you wouldn't
    be able to get the kids to stop laughing, that is if they were like me
    when I was growing up. 🙂 That story isn't what I'd call uplifting.
    Kelly
  3. Standard membertelerion
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    24 Sep '06 03:16
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Why would you think that is suppose to be uplifting?

    There are verses in the Bible I wouldn't want to read out loud in a
    church service simply because they are sort of crude and you wouldn't
    be able to get the kids to stop laughing, that is if they were like me
    when I was growing up. 🙂 That story isn't what I'd call uplifting.
    Kelly
    That story came from the mind of God himself! There are only so many pages in the Bible, and an omnipotent, omniscient being deemed that passage worthy of inclusion. Let no man call it 'crude.' Should we hide the Word of the Almighty under a bushel because some wicked children laugh? No! These deviants will burn in eternal hellfire someday. Who cares what they think? Proclaim it from the mountain tops.

    God says, "Lot shagged his daughters, and they loved it!"
  4. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    24 Sep '06 03:253 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay


    There are verses in the Bible I wouldn't want to read out loud in a
    church service
    Unbelievable! You're taking prudishness to a new level when you deem even Bible passages taboo in church!

    What are some other Bible verses that you think are inappropriate for church?
  5. Lisbon
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    24 Sep '06 03:523 edits
    Originally posted by telerion
    That story came from the mind of God himself! There are only so many pages in the Bible, and an omnipotent, omniscient being deemed that passage worthy of inclusion. Let no man call it 'crude.' Should we hide the Word of the Almighty under a bushel because some wicked children laugh? No! These deviants will burn in eternal hellfire someday. Who cares ...[text shortened]... im it from the mountain tops.

    God says, "Lot shagged his daughters, and they loved it!"
    Right, we shouldn't be ashamed of the Scriptures, after all, we believe they are God's Words.

    However, just because it is written it doesn't mean God approved it; far the opposite in this case.

    God doesn't portray history as man do. He doesn't remove from historical records all bad parts and keep all good parts. Biblical "heroes" had flaws, they were not perfect and bad and evil things they've done are not hidden.

    For example, if the Bible had been written by the will of man, probably the Israelites (Jews) would have erased any shameful record regarding their "Great King David". That was not the case, and that adds to the Bible's credit as the Inspired Word of God.

    What is recorded should be seen as lessons for all of us or as mere historical facts.

    In this particular situation, for Lot's credit, he was deceived by his daughters.

    Your sentence: "Lot shagged his daughters, and they loved it!" is totally as odds with the Bible record.

    Genesis 19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the first-born went in, and lay with her father; and he knew not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

    Regards
  6. Standard membertelerion
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    24 Sep '06 03:581 edit
    Originally posted by xpoferens
    Right, we shouldn't be ashamed of the Scriptures, after all, we believe they are God's Words.

    However, just because it is written it doesn't mean God approved it; far the opposite in this case.

    God doesn't portray history as man do. He doesn't remove from historical records all bad parts and keep all good parts. Biblical "heroes" had flaws, they were father; [b]and he knew not when she lay down, nor when she arose
    .

    Regards[/b]
    The word "they" in my post refered to the daughters, not to Lot.

    The rest of your post is not relevant at all. I neither said nor insinuated that God approved of their behavior, only that he thought this story delicious enough to be included in his tiny written message to the human race.

    Edit: God doesn't portray history as man do.
    This is so true. If only you could fathom it.
  7. Joined
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    24 Sep '06 04:00
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Why would you think that is suppose to be uplifting?

    There are verses in the Bible I wouldn't want to read out loud in a
    church service simply because they are sort of crude and you wouldn't
    be able to get the kids to stop laughing, that is if they were like me
    when I was growing up. 🙂 That story isn't what I'd call uplifting.
    Kelly
    if they knew what it was talking about maybe which i think if theyre old enough to know what they're talking about they're old enough not to laugh. what kid listens in church anyways?
  8. Lisbon
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    24 Sep '06 04:07
    Originally posted by telerion
    The word "they" in my post refered to the daughters, not to Lot.

    The rest of your post is not relevant at all. I neither said nor insinuated that God approved of their behavior, only that he thought this story delicious enough to be included in his tiny written message to the human race.

    Edit: [b]God doesn't portray history as man do.

    This is so true. If only you could fathom it.[/b]
    Sarcasm implies many things.

    Your sentence :"Lot shagged his daughters, and they loved it!", implies Lot's active part.

    Regards
  9. Standard membertelerion
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    24 Sep '06 04:13
    Originally posted by xpoferens
    Sarcasm implies many things.

    Your sentence :"Lot shagged his daughters, and they loved it!", implies Lot's active part.

    Regards
    You read into it that way. I did not mean that Lot enjoyed it. What father would? Personally, I think it is sick that you would go there.
  10. Lisbon
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    24 Sep '06 04:16
    Originally posted by telerion
    You read into it that way. I did not mean that Lot enjoyed it. What father would? Personally, I think it is sick that you would go there.
    Well, I didn't say you said "Lot enjoyed it", you are reading into it.
  11. Standard membertelerion
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    24 Sep '06 04:20
    Originally posted by xpoferens
    Well, I didn't say you said "Lot enjoyed it", you are reading into it.
    Okay, well certainly Lot did have an "active part." After all they did become impregnated. This is all the more impressive (in a sick way) given the copious amount of alcohol he'd consumed.
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    25 Sep '06 01:341 edit
    For me stories such as these help provide evidence fot the authenticity of the Biblical stories. After all, the Bible includes the good the bad and the ugly in the stories. It does not attempt to glorify any one individual, other than Christ, as being perfect or sinless. It is not akin to the other religous books such as the Qaran that attempts to glorify a mere mortal man in some way.

    Just as a side note, I always pictured the daughters of Lot as thinking that they were the only ones left alive on the face of the earth after having witnessed the apocolyptic scene of Sodom and Gommarah. I am not trying to justify their actions but merely trying to make sense of it all.
  13. Standard memberRBHILL
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    25 Sep '06 15:52
    You forgot to put thes verse in:

    30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave.

    31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth.

    37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.

    I see taht God had Moses put it in the word maybe to discribe how the Moabites and Ammonites came about.
  14. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    25 Sep '06 15:55
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    You forgot to put thes verse in:

    30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave.

    31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth.

    37 The older dau ...[text shortened]... t God had Moses put it in the word maybe to discribe how the Moabites and Ammonites came about.
    I see that God has failed to gift you the ability to spell. Perhaps you could ask Santa next time.
  15. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    25 Sep '06 16:33
    Originally posted by telerion
    Okay, well certainly Lot did have an "active part." After all they did become impregnated. This is all the more impressive (in a sick way) given the copious amount of alcohol he'd consumed.
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