Originally posted by bbarrWhat we do see is that when roughly half of monozygotic twins reared together are homsexual when their twin is homosexual, and this is roughly twice the rate observed among fraternal twins reared together.
While that metric would be ideal, and the studies done using this metric corraborate the results cited so far, the problem is that sample sizes have been small in such studies. What we do see is that when roughly half of monozygotic twins reared together are homsexual when their twin is homosexual, and this is roughly twice the rate observed among fraternal t ...[text shortened]... So, we're talking about studies where early environment has been controlled for across groups.
Could you point me in the direction of the study that found this?
Cheers,
LH
Originally posted by lucifershammerThanks--now I do have a real-life example of atheist prejudice.
Well, all I can say is that entering a monastery (Catholic, Tibetan Buddhist, whatever) is not something that strikes me as particularly bizarre. I'd have a problem if my (hypothetical) married elder sibling decided to abandon all worldly goods (and family) to join, say, the Hare Krishnas--but that would be a different issue.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI think that one thing to remember, in this case, is that the sister's reaction was very unfavourable even before the brother's announcement about joining a monastery.
Thanks--now I do have a real-life example of atheist prejudice.
Well, all I can say is that entering a monastery (Catholic, Tibetan Buddhist, whatever) is not something that strikes me as particularly bizarre. I'd have a problem if my (hypothetical) married elder sibling decided to abandon all worldly goods (and family) to join, say, the Hare Krishnas--but that would be a different issue.
Originally posted by lucifershammerHuman Biology, April 1998 v70 n2 p347(19)
[b]What we do see is that when roughly half of monozygotic twins reared together are homsexual when their twin is homosexual, and this is roughly twice the rate observed among fraternal twins reared together.
Could you point me in the direction of the study that found this?
Cheers,
LH[/b]
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Originally posted by HalitoseI thought I offered some interesting responses, among them this question that has gone unanswered:
As said before LH, excellent post. The lack of response from any but the irrational hardliners and the ever-present (omniscient) 😛 BdN seems indicative of something...
I have to wonder, if Tom's parents had explained to him that homosexual acts were intrinsically disordered, would the story have had a more happy ending?
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI meant on the atheistic prejudice of the religious.
I thought I offered some interesting responses, among them this question that has gone unanswered:
I have to wonder, if Tom's parents had explained to him that homosexual acts were intrinsically disordered, would the story have had a more happy ending?
To answer your question: Yes I believe so. For proof that homosexuality is a choice, I have a personal friend who was gay, he was even a male prostitute. Seeking counseling, he was able to change his choice. Today, he's as straight as they get. There was another study done of over 200 gays who changed their preference, I just can't find it... I'll keep looking.
Originally posted by HalitoseGive me a break! 🙄
I meant on the atheistic prejudice of the religious.
To answer your question: Yes I believe so. For proof that homosexuality is a choice, I have a personal friend who was gay, he was even a male prostitute. Seeking counseling, he was able to change his choice. Today, he's as straight as they get. There was another study done of over 200 gays who changed their preference, I just can't find it... I'll keep looking.
Please make sure that whatever studies you cite are from peer-reviewed scientific journals. Thanks in advance.
Originally posted by telerionWhat a great link! Not only did I discover that some evidence of genetic link = no evidence of genetic link, but I also learned (from a supposed psychology think tank) that all sorts of major media groups including NPR, Newsweek, and the Wall Street Journal are out to destroy our nation.
What a great link! Not only did I discover that some evidence of genetic link = no evidence of genetic link, but I also learned (from a supposed psychology think tank) that all sorts of major media groups including NPR, Newsweek, and the Wall Street Journal are out to destroy our nation.
Basically, the ariticle was an example of quote mining and dece ...[text shortened]... also have links to lots of papers so that you can actually read some of these quotes in context.
Yeah, I never quite got a kick from these media conspiracy theories.
Wacko: Just under 50% of identical twins with one gay sibling, the other is gay as well? That's not evidence of a genetic link! That's evidence of environment!
As with all science, you'll need to remove all the variables. My suggestion: don't use those raised in the same environment, because as you said, it can be used as proof for both sides of the issue.
However given that fewer than 10% of the general population is gay, a measure of 50% is very strong evidence.
Not if environment is the contributing factor.
I can add that place to my list of deceptive think tanks alongside CATO, AIG, and The Discovery Institute.
Fair enough.
If you want to be honest with yourself, stop filtering your searches to take in only right-wing xian think tanks which comprise about .001% of the intellectual opinion in the field.
It was actually my intent to post the right wing side of the story. I was just giving an extreme case in making my point. Incidentally it was also the first page that popped onto my search engine.
Consider for instance this FAQ from the American Psychology Association (a mainstream, non-partisan, respected organization).
The very fact that it is so respected makes me dubious that it would publish anything non-PC.
Interesting link though...
They also have links to lots of papers so that you can actually read some of these quotes in context.
Thanks. I'll work my way through it some time.
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Originally posted by HalitoseDo you agree that just because it is possible to choose to deny your sexuality as I suspect these gay men have done; it does not follow that they chose their particular breed of sexuality in the first place?
I meant on the atheistic prejudice of the religious.
To answer your question: Yes I believe so. For proof that homosexuality is a choice, I have a personal friend who was gay, he was even a male prostitute. Seeking counseling, he was able to change his choice. Today, he's as straight as they get. There was another study done of over 200 gays who changed their preference, I just can't find it... I'll keep looking.
Surely, it is no shock that religion can convince a person to alter their behavior in far more dramatic ways than this. I guess my point is that a gay man denying his sexuality and behaving like a straight man is not evidence for homosexuality being a choice. It is only evidence that humans can deny their respective sexualities. Catholic Priests being just one example.
TheSkipper
Originally posted by bbarrI don't know if Masters & Johnson would qualify for peer-review, but their studies make up the gross on sexuality in psychology text-books (at least the few I've seen).
Give me a break! 🙄
Please make sure that whatever studies you cite are from peer-reviewed scientific journals. Thanks in advance.
The Masters-Johnson Institute reported that: "A 25-year-old man had had his first sexual experience when he was 13 years old. It was arranged by his lesbian mother with an older gay man. After that episode, his imagery and interpersonal sexual experience were exclusively homosexual.... The man was however motivated to establish a heterosexual life style because he was sincerely distressed by public disapproval of homosexuality and his personal loneliness. [After treatment, he] has been followed for 3 1/2 years. His sexual interaction has been exclusively heterosexual. He has moved out of the gay community and has changed... his life style."1.
1. Schwartz MF & Masters WH The Masters and Johnson treatment program for dissatisfied homosexual men. Amer J Psychiatry 1984:141;173-81.
Still searching for the other study...