Tone of meaning...

Originally posted by googlefudge
Atheism is not a belief system.

How many times does this have to be said before you grasp it?

Atheism is the absence of a specific belief, it contains no beliefs, it is not a belief system.

I don't believe it is possible to exist without believing something.
Even you believe I seem like an idiot.

P.S. Didn't you say you believed in Evolution.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Again it depends on the atheist, as said above, we are not a unified group, we have no binding tenets.

The only thing we have in common is a lack of belief in god.


That said, there are as I say unifying belief systems that are secular, such as secular humanism.

These do have tenets and such, they are just rational and not faith based.

Scien vide the same social functions of a church
or religion.

We are social creatures by nature.

"If the answer is nothing other than themselves, that would seems to me to leave an individual so very much alone, with so much uncertainty about an unknown future."

So my surmise of a sense of utter aloneness and uncertainty are wrong?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't believe it is possible to exist without believing something.
Even you believe I seem like an idiot.

P.S. Didn't you say you believed in Evolution.

Bollocks!
Thats an utterly ridiculous statement.
Firstly, in your example, "you believe I seem like an idiot", he is using the word "believe" instead of the word "assume" . (Great example ,btw 🙂 ).
When we say "I believe it's going to rain", this is just another way to say "I assume it will rain". It is more correct to use the word "believe" in an ideological context, as in "I believe in god".
Secondly, if god does exist, we need not DECLARE that we believe in "him" . There is no need to believe in anything and proclaiming belief (in god, to further our example), is actually a sign that there is a lack of faith rather than the opposite. A person with strong faith in god will not need to proclaim his/her belief. They may want to say that they believe in god as an answer to a question, but to say this as a base statement is unnecessary and ultimately shows a LACK of belief.
The example that readily springs to mind is that of Osho, the self-proclaimed enlightened guru, who has now passed away, but whose legacy lives on with the "yellow people". He says that we do not go around saying things like "I believe in that flower" or "I believe in that dog", so why should we say "I believe in god" as a base statement? God is just there (as far as he is concerned). There is no need to affirm or deny It's existence either way.
Lastly, have you considered children, or better yet, babies? The last time I checked they existed and as far as I know they dont yet believe in anything.
Perhaps you may want to revise your point as it seems as if you had a point that you were trying to make there, but didn't come out right. (If I understood you correctly in the first place then it is bollocks. Pure and simple.)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Bollocks!
Thats an utterly ridiculous statement.
Firstly, in your example, "you believe I seem like an idiot", he is using the word "believe" instead of the word "assume" . (Great example ,btw 🙂 ).
When we say "I believe it's going to rain", this is just another way to say "I assume it will rain". It is more correct to use the word "believe" in an ...[text shortened]... u correctly in the first place then it is bollocks. Pure and simple.)

I believe we have a new idiot for googlefudge. 😀

Originally posted by RJHinds
I believe we have a new idiot for googlefudge. 😀

Are you calling me an idiot? I dont mind, I just cant understand your cryptic posts.

Whassup with you today , anyways? You seem to be back in stand-up mode.

(word of advice: just incase you missed it , Zhalanzi got a warning from a moderator for calling someone an idiot so if you are going to call me names, can you please get a bit more creative?)

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't believe it is possible to exist without believing something.
Even you believe I seem like an idiot.

P.S. Didn't you say you believed in Evolution.

Facepalm.


Atheism is not a belief system, this doesn't mean atheists have no beliefs, it just means they don't believe in god.

How hard is this to grasp? seriously.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"If the answer is nothing other than themselves, that would seems to me to leave an individual so very much alone, with so much uncertainty about an unknown future."

So my surmise of a sense of utter aloneness and uncertainty are wrong?[/b]

Yes :-)
Happily being an atheist does not mean being alone and/or uncertain.

Although it is perfectly possible for anyone to be alone and/or uncertain, it's just not a requisite
consequence of being an atheist.


However it is true that many people do have problems leaving their religion, mainly due to them
being ostracised and bullied by those (often family and friends) still in the religion.

There are support groups available (mainly US I'm talking here as it's not needed so much in UK
and I don't know about anywhere else) to help with the transition and to find people a new
social/support network. To help deal with the loss of their old one.

This wouldn't be an issue if so many theists were not so bigoted against atheists, so nice going
on the Christian values there...

Originally posted by googlefudge

Facepalm.


Atheism is not a belief system, this doesn't mean atheists have no beliefs, it just means they don't believe in god.

How hard is this to grasp? seriously.

"Atheism is not a belief system."

Then what is it?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"Atheism is not a belief system."

Then what is it?[/b]

I feel like I am on a loop...

Atheism, is by definition the absence of belief in a god or gods.
It is the opposite of theism, which is the belief in a god or gods.
The two are complete and exclusive, in that you are either one or the other.
You are either theist or not-theist (atheist).
You are either Atheist or not-Atheist (theist).

If you have a positive belief in a god, then you presumably also have a set of beliefs in what that
god requires of you (not always but generally true, deists for example don't necessarily believe
that god has ever come and given us instructions, or that their is an afterlife.) so that you can qualify
for entry into an afterlife.

If you don't believe in god, then you don't have any associated beliefs in what that god thinks.
Atheists are people who simply don't have a belief in god.

Atheism is thus an absence of a specific belief.

If you answer the question "do you believe in god/s?" with "no" then you are an atheist.
This doesn't tell you anything about what they do believe in, other than it doesn't include a god or gods.

So atheism, is not, in of itself, a belief system, it is a singular and specific absence of belief.

It has no tenets, dogmas, or requirements, other than not believing in god.

As I have said before any Buddhist that doesn't believe in some form of deity is an atheist.


http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/atheistdefine.html

http://www.atheist-community.org/

http://www.atheist-community.org/faq/

I hope this clears things up.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I feel like I am on a loop...

Atheism, is by definition the absence of belief in a god or gods.
It is the opposite of theism, which is the belief in a god or gods.
The two are complete and exclusive, in that you are either one or the other.
You are either theist or not-theist (atheist).
You are either Atheist or not-Atheist (theist).

If you hav ...[text shortened]... munity.org/

http://www.atheist-community.org/faq/

I hope this clears things up.

Do atheists pray?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Do atheists pray?

No... why, and to what, would we pray to???

We don't believe in god/s....

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Do atheists pray?

It doesn't seem right to me to say atheists pray, but wouldn't that be up to the god that is involved, if it was real?

If they pray to a god that isn't real, I still think it would be up to the god that is real, if there is one, to decide if they were close enough in their belief for it to count as a prayer.

Like for example if the real god is just like the one they prayed to except the one they prayed to was a god of universal reconciliation and the one they prayed to wasn't. The real god would decide whether to overlook that difference.

I'm assuming monotheism or at least all gods being like-minded about the matter.

Originally posted by JS357
It doesn't seem right to me to say atheists pray, but wouldn't that be up to the god that is involved, if it was real?

If they pray to a god that isn't real, I still think it would be up to the god that is real, if there is one, to decide if they were close enough in their belief for it to count as a prayer.

Like for example if the real god is just like ...[text shortened]... erence.

I'm assuming monotheism or at least all gods being like-minded about the matter.

I am not sure I understand you here...


The question was do atheists pray?

IE do they ask god/s for things, like forgiveness, or health, or rain....

The answer is no, they don't.
Because if you don't believe in a god it's pretty pointless asking it for stuff.


The question wasn't are atheists prayers considered genuine by god, but do they
pray in the first place.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Are you calling me an idiot? I dont mind, I just cant understand your cryptic posts.

Whassup with you today , anyways? You seem to be back in stand-up mode.

(word of advice: just incase you missed it , Zhalanzi got a warning from a moderator for calling someone an idiot so if you are going to call me names, can you please get a bit more creative?)

You seem not to understand why Christians feel a need to declare our
belief in God, yet you apparently understand perfectly well your need
to declare you disbelief in God. What word would you use for this
type of Person? It doesn't seem like a genius or even a person of
average intelligence to me. Perhaps you were just not thinking
correctly at the time.

P.S. Dasa would call it a dishonest person. Do you like that better?

Originally posted by RJHinds
You seem not to understand why Christians feel a need to declare our
belief in God, yet you apparently understand perfectly well your need
to declare you disbelief in God. What word would you use for this
type of Person? It doesn't seem like a genius or even a person of
average intelligence to me. Perhaps you were just not thinking
correctly at the time.

P.S. Dasa would call it a dishonest person. Do you like that better?

Apparently you do not understand the difference between God and a christian god.

I dont feel the need to (constantly) declare my belief for God. I see this as a lack of faith.
No, I dont understand why christians need to constantly declare their belief in God and Jesus. Frankly, it's very boring and does not add anything. Now if you were a Hare Krsna constantly chanting , then I would understand as there is a practical reason for that. (But even then they dont put it on a forum such as this).
It seems as if some christians dont have anything to add to many of these discussions so they just repeat themselves.

What word would I use for what person that doesn't believe in a christian God? "intelligent" . " unshackelled". Perhaps "free".

Apparently you are not to worship false idols, yet I see you guys worshipping some dead jew on a cross from 2000+ years ago. Some crucified dead guy that has subsequently become the no.1 idol for a major religion.
I would say that whoever wrote the bible and made the churches (to control the masses) has done a very good job.
I thought JC wanted to unite the world under God? Nothing could be further from the truth. Christianity has persecuted those that dont follow blindly for millenia. It has divided the people and taken the power away from the individual. It has told us that we must die on order to be saved. I really dont think Christ would be all that impressed with what has been done in his name.