trinity revisited (for my own sake)

Passages that say there is only one God:

You know Robbie, i think I'm going to switch sides here and become a trinitarian. But in order for me to believe it I have to make a few changes here in the Bible. The changes will have this (((( )))) around it so it will fit the trinity.

1. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become (((( 2 )))) [echad] flesh. " Genesis 2:24
2. "there is (((( others )))) like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10
3. "Yahweh, He is God; there ((((others)))) besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
4. "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there are ((((others.))))." Deuteronomy 4:39
5. "See now that I, I am He, And there is ((((another)))) god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
6. "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is (((( three)))) [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
7. "You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is ((((2 other God's besides)))) You" 2 Samuel 7:22
8. "For who is God, besides Yahweh? ((((Jesus & the Holy Spirit)))) And who is a rock, besides our God?" 2 Samuel 22:32
9. "Yahweh is God; there is (((( 2 others))))." 1 Kings 8:60
10. "You are the God, You (((( are not))))alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth." 2 Kings 19:15
11. "O Lord, there is none like You, (((( there are 2 other God's)))) besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
12. "You (((( are not))))alone [bad] are Yahweh." Nehemiah 9:6
13. "For who is God, but Yahweh ((((and Jesus and the Holy Spirit))))? And who is a rock, except our God"(((( Jesus and the Holy Spirit)))))))) Psalm 18:31
14. "You ((((and 2 others)))))alone [bad], Lord, are God." Isaiah 37:20
15. "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me."(((( except for Jesus & the Holy Spirit)))) Isaiah 43:10
16. "‘I am the first ((((of three))))and I am (((( not))))the last, And there is ((((2)))) God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
17. "Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.(((( except for Jesus & the Holy spirit))))" Isaiah 44:8
18. "I am Yahweh, and there is ((((2)))) others; Besides Me there is (((2)))) Gods." Isaiah 45:5
19. "Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God.(((( except for Jesus & the Holy spirit)))" Isaiah 45:14
20. "I am Yahweh, and there is (((( 2 others))))" Isaiah 45:18
21. "Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me (((( and Jesus & the Holy Spirit))))." Isaiah 45:21
22. "I am God, and there is ((((2)))) others; I am God, and there is (((( 2 others)))) like Me" Isaiah 46:9

23. "And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be only one (((( of three god's))))[echad], and His name the only (((( besides Jesus and George))))
((((I gave him a name since he does't have one))))[echad]." Zechariah 14:9

24. "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one [hen] and love the other, or he will be devoted to one [hen] and despise the other. You cannot serve God and ((((Jesus and George)))wealth." Matthew 6:24
25. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one
26. [hen] flesh"? " Matthew 19:5 "But do not be called Rabbi; for (((( 3 ))) [hen] is your Teacher, and you are all brothers." Matthew 23:8
27. "Do not be called leaders; for (((( 3 )))) [hen] is your Leader, that is, Christ((( and Jehovah & George))))." Matthew 23:10
28. ""The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is (((( 3 )))) [hen] Lord; " Mark 12:29
29. "you do not seek the glory that is from the (((( 3 )))) and only [monos] God?" John 5:44
30. "I and the Father are (((( 2 ))))
31. [hen]." John 10:30 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only [monos] true God"(((( and jesus & George)))) John 17:3
32. "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one [hen], just as We are (((( 2 or 3)))) [hen]" John 17:22
33. "since indeed God is (((( 3 )))) [hen]" Romans 3:30
34. "(((( not )))) the only [monos] wise God, Amen." Romans 16:27
35. "there is no God but (((( 3 )))) [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4
36. "yet for us there is but (((( 3 God's)))) the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one [hen] Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." 1 Corinthians 8:6
37. "Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only (((( 3 )))) [hen]." Galatians 3:20
38. "There is (((( 3 )))) [hen] bodies and one [hen] Spirit, one [hen] hope, one [hen] Lord, one [hen] faith, one [hen] baptism, one [hen] God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6
39. "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only [monos] God" 1 Timothy 1:17
40. "which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and (((( not the ))))only [monos] Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone [monos] possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen." 1 Timothy 6:16
41. "For there is (((( 3 )))) [hen] Gods, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
42. "You believe that God is (((( 3 ))))) [hen]. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19
43. "For certain persons deny our (((( one of 3 )))) [monos] Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 4
44. "the (((( 1 of 3 )))) [monos] God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen." Jude 25

Now Robbie it all makes sence. How stupid I could have been..... So I'm now officially a TRINITARIAN. Yeah!!!!

Duecer,

I know that the Triune God has been distributed into the members of the Body of Christ. Here some facts to ponder:

Paul says that Christ is the alloted portion of the saints.
"Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you for a share of the alloted portion of the saints in the light." (Colossians 1:12)

God the Father has qualified the members of the church (saints) each to a lot of the inheritance, as illustrated in the typology of the Old Testament. The good land of Canaan was divided up by lots and distributed to the twelve tribes.

This is not to teach Christ is divided up per se. It is to teach that Christ, like the promise land, is distributed to and among the new testament redeemed people. And each one of the saved saints has a portion of this rich, vast, all-inclusive Christ.

Jesus Christ is the alloted portion of the redeemed saints for their divine inheritance and enjoyment. How then can anyone complain that Christ cannot be distributed to the members of His church?

As new covenant saints our allotment is not the physical land of Canaan. It is the extensive, rich, and precious Jesus God's Son.

Galveston,

I did not notice that you answered these questions. I want to hear your reply before you jump into another matter.

Again:

===========================
Let me ask you this. The phrase God Almighty certainly means that God is all sufficient and that everything we need is included in Him. He is the Almighty.

Now if God abides in the believers, this God Almighty, then WHAT need is there for Christ to abide in them ?

Notice:

"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Chist, God abides in him." (1 John 4:15)

If God Almighty abides in the Christians, then what need is there for Christ as a separate being to indwell them?

" ... do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" (2 Cor. 13:6)

If God Almighty abides in the believers why are they disapproved if Christ ALSO as another being, is not in them ?

Why does the New Testament teach that it is not enough for God the Almighty to indwell the believers with ALL that He is and has ?

===================================

What is your answer sir ?

"Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is (((( three)))), hahaha, oh my friend, it is hilarious, perhaps it is but a temporary sickness, a passing state of delirium, with the help of Gods holy spirit, you shall once more peer into the word and all those strange echoes and distorted scriptural references shall once again ring crystal clear with the ring of truth!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
"Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is (((( three)))), hahaha, oh my friend, it is hilarious, perhaps it is but a temporary sickness, a passing state of delirium, with the help of Gods holy spirit, you shall once more peer into the word and all those strange echoes and distorted scriptural references shall once again ring crystal clear with the ring of truth!

Oh my...Wow! I think I'm ok Robbie..whew, that was close. It was really weird but once I made those changes, my powers of perseption started to get cloudy and I almost lost the truth of the Bible.... So glad I'm back!!!

Originally posted by jaywill
Galveston,

I did not notice that you answered these questions. I want to hear your reply before you jump into another matter.

Again:

[b]===========================
Let me ask you this. The phrase God Almighty certainly means that God is all sufficient and that everything we need is included in Him. He is the Almighty.

Now if God abid t He is and has ?

===================================

What is your answer sir ?[/b]

Your correct on the first part. In reality Jehovah is all we need. But that's not the end of the story is it? He created a son that he loved very much. In fact so much he gave him some very important projects to do. Namely create all that his father had planned to create.
So far so good?
But Satan and our 1st parents messed that up for the rest of us. Agree?
So in order to get things back on track they agreed that Jesus, his son, would give his life in ransom for what Adam lost and for all that want it. Still make sence?
And as a reward to his son Jesus for staying faithful to him even going thru a horrible death, he is letting him rule his, "God's " Kingdom for a thousand years, let him judge who earns life eternal and even said he could have 144,000 very derseving ones that were bought from the earth to share the kingdom rule with him.
So as a result of God letting his son rule this Kingdom, then yes during this time we answer to Jesus and his rule. He is the acting ruler and Lord until he hands the kingdom back to his Father.

Slightly off track but YHWH the true pronunciation is not even known for sure. The Jews held the divine name of God to be so sacred as to not pronounce it. So Jehovah technically is a mis-pronunciation. I heard somewhere that it's a breathy sound that even ties in with the spirit being the breath of life. The last part might not be true but I did hear or read it somewhere.




Manny

Originally posted by duecer
The word trinity does not appear in the bible....nor does the word Lutheraninsm, rapture, millenium, theocracy, Augustiinanism, and many other words in common usage today. To say a word that represents a concept and theology (way we explain God) does not exist therefor it is wrong, is not a valid argument.

Some people contend that trinity doctrines are of ...[text shortened]... way of mutual understanding.

respectful postings only please, and I will return the courtesy

Surely one of the whole problems is how one looks at the trinity.
The Greek orthodoxy has a different interpretation of it to Catholicism (basically the major issue in the first schism).

Originally (the Greek church's stance) it meant that the Holy ghost and Jesus came from God.
In the West (Latin church; Catholicism), there were always rumours about it actually being the holy ghost came from Jesus and God (the major point of difference being that the Catholic version means Jesus and God are on the same level, instead of Jesus and the Holy ghost being on the same level).

This interpetation (argumented by, among others, Augustine), wasn't really popular, except in a small community in Spain. Until it came to Charlemagne's attention. He made sure the Catholic church started using this version in services.

The papacy didn't actually want to use this version, because they knew it could split the church (West and Eastern), however, they had to sleep with the rulers in the West to survive. Hence the political decision on this issue.

Or, that's what I was always taught at school.

Originally posted by galveston75
Oh my...Wow! I think I'm ok Robbie..whew, that was close. It was really weird but once I made those changes, my powers of perseption started to get cloudy and I almost lost the truth of the Bible.... So glad I'm back!!!

glad to see that you have made a quick and excellent recovery my friend, having double vision may be hard enough, but triple vision must be intolerable. i really don't know how you endured!

Originally posted by menace71
Slightly off track but YHWH the true pronunciation is not even known for sure. The Jews held the divine name of God to be so sacred as to not pronounce it. So Jehovah technically is a mis-pronunciation. I heard somewhere that it's a breathy sound that even ties in with the spirit being the breath of life. The last part might not be true but I did hear or read it somewhere.




Manny

its not entirely accurate, for the divine name and its pronunciation have been preserved in proper names, for example Elijah, Adonijah, and also in phrases like, Hallilujah, a transliteration of the Hebrew expression haleluYah, meaning praise Jehovah!

Originally posted by shavixmir
Surely one of the whole problems is how one looks at the trinity.
The Greek orthodoxy has a different interpretation of it to Catholicism (basically the major issue in the first schism).

Originally (the Greek church's stance) it meant that the Holy ghost and Jesus came from God.
In the West (Latin church; Catholicism), there were always rumours about ...[text shortened]... nce the political decision on this issue.

Or, that's what I was always taught at school.

All across Christianity there are a myriad of differences in doctrinal interpretations. I tend to follow more of the Greek Orthodox tradition where the trinity is concerned.

Politics is an abomination in Christs church, and anyone that would cave on their convictions for political reasons is not right with the Lord, and needs to seriously repent.

Galveston, thankyou for attempting a reply. You put forth an honest and well thought out answer.

However, let me point out to you how you have not really addressed the issue I raised.

=====================================
Your correct on the first part. In reality Jehovah is all we need. But that's not the end of the story is it? He created a son that he loved very much.
=================================

So far this is all in the objective realm. My question was about the indwelling of God and the indwelling of Christ.

So far nothing here touches "God abides in him" as John writes. And nothing touches "Jesus Christ is in you" as Paul writes.

=============================
In fact so much he gave him some very important projects to do. Namely create all that his father had planned to create.
So far so good?
=============================

Still, you have not touched the inward dwelling of God and Christ in the believers as is so much elaborated on in the New Testament. You are still in the objective realm of God's projects, God's creating, even God's love. You have not yet addressed the question about the indwelling of God and Christ. You have not yet spoken to Christ abiding in the Christians or God abiding in them.


=============================
But Satan and our 1st parents messed that up for the rest of us. Agree?
So in order to get things back on track they agreed that Jesus, his son, would give his life in ransom for what Adam lost and for all that want it. Still make sence?
=================================

Notice still galveston, Satan corrupting, God and man getting "back on track," Jesus giving His life in ransom, though they make sense, do not touch the matter of "God abides in him". The ransom paid by Christ's death still does not touch "Jesus Christ is IN you" .

You are still in the realm of things OUTSIDE of man that God has done. So you have not yet addressed my question/s.

==============================
And as a reward to his son Jesus for staying faithful to him even going thru a horrible death, he is letting him rule his, "God's " Kingdom for a thousand years, let him judge who earns life eternal and even said he could have 144,000 very derseving ones that were bought from the earth to share the kingdom rule with him.
============================

Still the same problem.

The suffering of Jesus, the faithfulness of Jesus, the death of Jesus, the reigning of Jesus, the 144,000 for Jesus, the kingdom ruled by Jesus, the people ruling with Jesus .... ALL STILL OUTWARD.

All this still has NOTHING to do with "God abides IN him". All this still has nothing to do with "Jesus Christ is in you".

So you are not addressing the issue though you are saying some interesting things (some of which are arguable in their own right). But I will not get distracted here.

===========================
So as a result of God letting his son rule this Kingdom, then yes during this time we answer to Jesus and his rule. He is the acting ruler and Lord until he hands the kingdom back to his Father.
==============================

I have come to the end of your reply and I see NO answer to my question.

If God the Almighty is in the Christian, why is it not sufficient that the Almighty indwells them and that they are disapproved if Jesus Christ is NOT in them ALSO ?

Please try again. Please focus on God abiding in the believer and Christ abiding in the believer.

"Whosoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God." (1 John 4:15)

" ... do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" (2 Cor. 13:5)

If God abides in the Christian, why is he disapproved if Jesus Christ ALSO is NOT living in the Christian?

Why is it not sufficient that the Almighty, All Sufficient Jehovah God, abides and lives in the Christian?

Please try again with focus.

In all fairness, is THIS the answer?
galveston,

==============================
So as a result of God letting his son rule this Kingdom, then yes during this time we answer to Jesus and his rule. He is the acting ruler and Lord until he hands the kingdom back to his Father.
====================================

If so please elaborate a little more why the indwelling of both God AND Jesus Christ is related to this final answer.

Originally posted by jaywill
In all fairness, is THIS the answer?
galveston,

[b]==============================
So as a result of God letting his son rule this Kingdom, then yes during this time we answer to Jesus and his rule. He is the acting ruler and Lord until he hands the kingdom back to his Father.
====================================

If so please elabora ...[text shortened]... little more[/b] why the indwelling of both God AND Jesus Christ is related to this final answer.[/b]

Really don't know how to answer because the "indwelling" makes no sense to me..Sorry.

Originally posted by galveston75
Really don't know how to answer because the "indwelling" makes no sense to me..Sorry.

THAT was an intirely HONEST answer.

In this regard I have great respect for you.

Let me consider how I should proceed then. But you are to be commended for your honesty here.