Two Books

Originally posted by whodey
Not so fast. Did Christ not provide us with empirical evidence? After all, has it not been shown empirically that to walk in love with other people is a "good" thing to do? In fact, I think the empirical evidence shows this to be a wise way to live. In fact, many embrace the teachings of Christ, like Thomas Jefferson, but rejected the aspect of his teachi ...[text shortened]... suppose to swallow the notion that we have no empirical evidence for the truth behind the man?

Now you are constantly use your dear book to back you up. But what is backing up the bible? It's nothing but a good story book you know. By the way, I've read the Ring Trilogy, that's another good book you can learn much from.

And you like prophecies a lot, then I have to recommend Nostradamus scripture. Read and interprete and you can see that whatever happened today is written in Nostradamus. Even if you have to twist your interpretations a little. You are used to that, because you do the same thing with the biblical prophecies.

Don't you think you can find Shiva in every religion? Isn't it like even Jesus is a true reincarnation of Shiva?

Embrace all the empirical proofs of the reality! Shiva, Nostradamus and the Bagger's family are reality proved by books and experiences!

Originally posted by josephw
Fact- God created.

Fact- Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead.

The Bible is full of facts. It's all true.

Fact- Darwin is dead.

Fact- Evolution is a theory of human invention.

Fact- God created. actually it is belief. we do not know for sure that is why we(sensible religious people) have faith. religion is based on faith not fact. otherwise you wouldn't get much credit for believing in a god everyone knows exists. it is like asking for a cookie because you believe the sun exists.

Fact- Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead. belief. one i for one strongly believe in. but not fact. nobody documented his rise from the dead other than biased sources that had all interest in him rising and fulfilling the prophecy(his disciples).

The Bible is full of facts. It's all true. sure, like noah's flood and the earth being created in 7 days and having less than 10k years and dinosaurs walking the earth alongside man and so on. it is indeed full of facts /sarcasm

Fact- Darwin is dead. so? so is Saint Peter and Plato and Hitler. what is your point?

Fact- Evolution is a theory of human invention. So is the theory of gravitation, the theory of relativity, newtons laws of mechanics and so on. again, what's your point?

Originally posted by 667joe
The koran has the same authority as the bible (or for that matter, any book of fairy tales, which is to day none. A decent god would certainly not kill his only son to set an example of love worth emulating. A decent god would have been bright enough to figure out a kinder way to get the job done. I f god would kill his only son whom he loved, what do you think he will do to you? I want no part of such a bastard!

actually here are some new thoughts.

jesus is part of god, therefore he is not human, therefore jesus dying wasn't such a big deal as for humans. he lived for countless years before and then he only had to spent about 30 years on this sh|thole of a planet and suffer several hours on the cross. so do you still think god is a bastard for making his son whom he loved suffer for 30 years(considering it was all suffering but he did get to go to a wedding once) when jesus was much older than that, maybe as old as the universe? maybe jesus is as old as god so what are 30 years to him? when you live for 100 years, 1 hour of pain isn't so horrible, is it?


also has it occured to you that killing the j man was never god's intention? sure the prophecy was that he would be killed, but only because god knew what kind of dicks exist in mankind. so i submit the idea that all that god did was sending jesus on earth to teach us some new sh|t because we were out of control. and we, not god, were the ones who killed jesus. because mostly that is what we do with people that come up with new sh|t: we kill them.

btw i am the religious type who believes mankind is responsible for what it does, not god. god doesn't kill, we do.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Now you are constantly use your dear book to back you up. But what is backing up the bible? It's nothing but a good story book you know. By the way, I've read the Ring Trilogy, that's another good book you can learn much from.

And you like prophecies a lot, then I have to recommend Nostradamus scripture. Read and interprete and you can see that whateve ...[text shortened]... y! Shiva, Nostradamus and the Bagger's family are reality proved by books and experiences!

shiva the destroyer. get it? jesus being shiva's reincarnation makes no sense.

it is baggins if i am not mistaken not bagger.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
shiva the destroyer. get it? jesus being shiva's reincarnation makes no sense.

it is baggins if i am not mistaken not bagger.

Shiva the destroyer - God the destroyer, right?
God, the global flood, only 8 persons survived, right?
A multitude of stories of destruction in the old testament of the bible, right?
Jesus, son of God the destroyer, right?
Revelations, the prophecies of the total destruction, right?
The whole christian religion is about destruction, right?

(Sorry, Bagger is the Swedish translation, Baggins is correct of course, my mistake.)

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Shiva the destroyer - God the destroyer, right?
God, the global flood, only 8 persons survived, right?
A multitude of stories of destruction in the old testament of the bible, right?
Jesus, son of God the destroyer, right?
Revelations, the prophecies of the total destruction, right?
The whole christian religion is about destruction, right?

(Sorry, Bagger is the Swedish translation, Baggins is correct of course, my mistake.)

actually the christian religion is about love. not about a story about incest invented by moses when he was sun stroke in the desert. not about a story about lots of water invented by moses when he was sun stroke in the desert. not about the genocides commited by a tribe of savages against other tribes of savages.

all horrors in the bible can be explained. moses was lost(most likely the tribes in canaan were too strong to attack) in the desert and needed a way to keep the jews in check: hence the flood story(it could be worse), the story of adam and eve(see what happens to those that do not obey god?).
joshua did not want to share canaan and so he murdered the previous owners and said god wanted it. when they were conquered by a stronger power, they said god willed it and that if they behave, they will be saved.
and so on.
much of the bible had uses at that time. but that doesn't mean paul intended for women to absolutely obey their husbands for all eternity. that doesn't mean we should stone adulterers to death or that we should ban all science contradicting the flood.

one must be careful what one reads and choose what to pick up. seems you only picked up the bad parts, and furthermore, the parts from the old testament which aren't christian anyway.

christianity is about the son of god, the nice dood, not the vindictive jealous evil god that some jews portrayed him to be.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
actually the christian religion is about love. not about a story about incest invented by moses when he was sun stroke in the desert. not about a story about lots of water invented by moses when he was sun stroke in the desert. not about the genocides commited by a tribe of savages against other tribes of savages.

all horrors in the bible can be explaine ...[text shortened]... f god, the nice dood, not the vindictive jealous evil god that some jews portrayed him to be.

I agree totally. Christianity started with Jesus. The old testament became obsolete.
But still there are so many obsolete semi jew christians, believing in the cruel god of OT, believing in the old legends of the creation and flooding and burning bush and everything. When will they learn?

Why not get rid of (1) old testament) and (2) revelations (resembling Nostradamus, as much as the halucinations of drug adicts) once and for all, and become real christians?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I agree totally. Christianity started with Jesus. The old testament became obsolete.
But still there are so many obsolete semi jew christians, believing in the cruel god of OT, believing in the old legends of the creation and flooding and burning bush and everything. When will they learn?

Why not get rid of (1) old testament) and (2) revelations (res ...[text shortened]... amus, as much as the halucinations of drug adicts) once and for all, and become real christians?

perhaps you are unaware that the so called 'old testament' is quoted in whole or in part in excess of three hundred times in the Greek portion of the scriptures, hardly a convincing argument for the formers status of obsolescence, is it?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
actually the christian religion is about love. not about a story about incest invented by moses when he was sun stroke in the desert. not about a story about lots of water invented by moses when he was sun stroke in the desert. not about the genocides commited by a tribe of savages against other tribes of savages.

all horrors in the bible can be explaine f god, the nice dood, not the vindictive jealous evil god that some jews portrayed him to be.

Zalansi you pansy, still given to sentimentality, love and flowers, butterflies and moonbeams, look!! there's a unicorn jumping over a rainbow with dolphins playing in the azure waters below. Justice is justice and war is war, i do not like it any more than you, yes the Christ came to set things straight, but if you will also note, he is portrayed in the Greek portion of scripture, as a warrior against the unrighteous also, hardly the lovey dovey figure that those who are blinded by sentimentality would have us believe.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
[b]Fact- God created. actually it is belief. we do not know for sure that is why we(sensible religious people) have faith. religion is based on faith not fact. otherwise you wouldn't get much credit for believing in a god everyone knows exists. it is like asking for a cookie because you believe the sun exists.

Fact- Jesus died on the cross and ros ...[text shortened]... on, the theory of relativity, newtons laws of mechanics and so on. again, what's your point?

{b]"actually it is belief. we do not know for sure that is why we(sensible religious people) have faith. religion is based on faith not fact. otherwise you wouldn't get much credit for believing in a god everyone knows exists. it is like asking for a cookie because you believe the sun exists."[/b]

Is Jesus the incarnation? He is. That's a fact. It's a fact that Jesus said God created. It's a no-brainer. Religion is for no-brainers. Faith is based on fact.

You need to learn about what faith is. Faith is not a hope for, wish for, maybe I'll get lucky and it will come true thing.
Faith is real and so is that which faith is in.

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is not blind.

Originally posted by josephw
{b]"actually it is belief. we do not know for sure that is why we(sensible religious people) have faith. religion is based on faith not fact. otherwise you wouldn't get much credit for believing in a god everyone knows exists. it is like asking for a cookie because you believe the sun exists."

Is Jesus the incarnation? He is. That's a fact. It's a fac ...[text shortened]... e substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is not blind.[/b]

Religion is for no-brainers

Most sensible thing you've said yet.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Zalansi you pansy, still given to sentimentality, love and flowers, butterflies and moonbeams, look!! there's a unicorn jumping over a rainbow with dolphins playing in the azure waters below. Justice is justice and war is war, i do not like it any more than you, yes the Christ came to set things straight, but if you will also note, he is portrayed i ...[text shortened]... rdly the lovey dovey figure that those who are blinded by sentimentality would have us believe.

...

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
perhaps you are unaware that the so called 'old testament' is quoted in whole or in part in excess of three hundred times in the Greek portion of the scriptures, hardly a convincing argument for the formers status of obsolescence, is it?

Are you aware of how many times the "Hitchhikers Way to the Galaxy" is quoted? Does it make the story more or less true, more or less obsolete?

Who are those people quoting the Old Testament? Semi jew christians? or Jew wannabees?

Originally posted by josephw
{b]"actually it is belief. we do not know for sure that is why we(sensible religious people) have faith. religion is based on faith not fact. otherwise you wouldn't get much credit for believing in a god everyone knows exists. it is like asking for a cookie because you believe the sun exists."

Is Jesus the incarnation? He is. That's a fact. It's a fac ...[text shortened]... e substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is not blind.[/b]

i have faith that i will fall if i jump off a cliff
i know i will fall if i jump off a cliff

which one of these is more aproppriate?

faith implies no evidence. if there is evidence one way or the other, faith is no longer an issue. then it is a fact. nobody needs to have faith in gravitation.

just that you believe the bible is proof enough of god's existance it doesn't make it so. you fail on a logic level if you think the bible is true because the bible says the bible is true and you will be kicked out of any intelligent people club