Originally posted by sonhouse
What I think is theists are just fooling themselves and taking an extremely arrogant stance that a god would love them so much it would keep them going, after reproducing in the billions to the point where there would be literally trillions of souls floating around in some kind of eternal bliss, just a fantasy.
I would like to hear some dyed in the wool n ant colony and picking out his special ants and then stomping on the ones he thinks diss him.
What I think is theists are just fooling themselves and taking an extremely arrogant stance that a god would love them so much it would keep them going, after reproducing in the billions to the point where there would be literally trillions of souls floating around in some kind of eternal bliss, just a fantasy.
It is not arrogant to believe that God loves me. It is arrogant to believe that God loves my sin and my sinning. But that God loves me ? This is not arrogance anymore than it is arrogance to believe my mother and father love me.
Now if there were not provision for my sins, no remedy for transgression of God's law, that God loves all that evil baggage that I bring long, that is arrogance. As it stands in His love He has made provision for my sins in Chist's salvation.
It is not arrogant to believe God loves us. And if one were thankful to their Creator they could easily look around and find many many things for which to thank God as tokens of His love.
I would like to hear some dyed in the wool theist tell me what their god would WANT with trillions of souls around?
Don't think we thiests have not considered the practicality of such things. First of all the universe testifies to the unlimited power of God. He has provided an emblem of His eternal power and infinite provision.
While we may not have details of how God would handle population in eternity, our trust is inspired by the testimony of His creation. The Bible tells us that God names all the stars. Now the ancients saw billions of stars up in the sky just as moderners do. They could see the Milky Way with billions of stars. And the word of God told them and us that God names all the stars and that the hairs on our head are all numbered.
The bottom line is that God can make provision. We just do not know all the details.
trillions of souls around?
God's salvation is more practical. It includes not only the SOUL of man. It includes the BODY or man, the SPIRIT of man, and the whole environment of man.
When I first became a Christian I thought of souls floating in some ethereal light or on clouds, was the eternal future of the saved. Reading the Bible for myself erased these ideas and I realized how practical His love and provision are to include our whole being and the creation itself.
This god needs eternal worship? Bit of a childish god that would need that. [Can you imagine a god capable of creating whole universes billions of light years wide with perhaps millions of intelligent civilizations on planets all around that universe, could create an infinite number of those, and then theists telling themselves it would need eternal worship? Or would be vengeful if ignored or whatever?
It is interesting that when God creates man He gives man no instructions on how to worship. He only warns man what not to eat.
This is a window into the nature of man and his God. What we eat is what we take into our being. God put man before
"the tree of life". This signified that God's eternal is for man to take into himself God as "food."
Man is to take God in as "food" and be constituted in his being with what God is. Like "You are what you eat" saying.
What does it look like to take in God continually ? It looks like Jesus Christ.
So Jesus Christ says
" As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)
The true worship is to take God into our heart and spirit as "food" that we may live because of God.
Of course if you go around the Internet you will see people praising the best movie, the best rock group, the greatest dancer or actor or song writer. People have this idol to praise. People have all kinds of idols to worship, constantly heaping adoration on things they enjoy.
What is wrong with praising the God whom we enjoy ? It is quite appropriate and also makes one quite joyful.
If worship of God for you is ardious and wearisome labor of boredom, then you are just being religious. Of course if you read the Bible you would see plenty of indication that such wearisome "worship" God is not pleased with.
I guess you never heard about Jesus breaking the Sabbath and being persecuted for it.
To me it is just theists making up anthropological traits of the worse of human behavior and transferring them to a made up god so they can control people and especially to suppress women.
To me, the athiest secretly looks within himself. He sees the ugliness of his own sinfulness according to his God created conscience. And then he cannot believe that a God exists because that would be a BIG person. And the atheist knows from experience what problems are involved in personhood.
The atheist projects his problems out on any proposed larger Person. Basically, I think the atheists thinks - "No. It cannot be that a BIG ME exists. There can be no god."
Of course he also doesn't want there to be God. So he comforts himself with the worst examples of mythoogy, religion, fanaticism, and all negative examples of religiosity. And with these negative factors he quiets his conscience that he is doing "good" to reject God.
I can't deny the possibility there could be a god or maybe even an infinite number of gods but I cannot accept the theistic view of such a god having any interaction with humans.
Your attitude is amazingly 1,000,000 % the opposite of a certain Theist that I know about. His name -
Jesus.
The degree to which He held to idea of His Father being "involved" with every person on earth led Him to a place of absolute devotion to the Father's will. Maybe what He believed and spoke and demonstrated is
truth.
To me it would be like a person having an ant colony and picking out his special ants and then stomping on the ones he thinks diss him.
This to me is the problem of "Why shouldn't God recuse Himself as the Final Judge of all ?"
Recuse has this definition:
to disqualify (oneself) as judge in a particular case; broadly: to remove (oneself) from participation to avoid a conflict of interest
If there is an Ultimate Governor of all reality then that One is qualified to be both Savior and Judge of all mankind. It is just a part of His responsibility as God of all.
The problem you pose is that God should recuse Himself from inacting ultimate justice because He has a vested personal interest. Ie. He cannot judge righteously because He has a vested personal interest in being worshipped and loved.
But the same God who is judge of all also became the Substitute wrath bearer on behalf of all.
"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not accounting their offenses to them, and has put in us the word of reconcilation. On behalf of Christ then we are ambassoadors, as God entreats you through us; we beseech you on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God" (2 Cor. 5:19)
In His triune being, in His three-one nature, the Judge of all has made provision to in principle be the Savior and Attorney of all, if we would be reconciled to God.
For this reason the Ultimate Judge of all need not recuse Himself from fulfilling His righteous responsibility to His own being - to put eternal justice in order.
The cosmic buck has to stop somewhere. If the cosmic buck does not stop with God then at who else will the buck stop ? What is hard for you to imagine is that the God who wants the greatest love is also the same God who is setter of things to their greatest level of rightness. The two you cannot see co-existing in one Person.
So you think the God who wants our greatest love should recuse Himself from being the Ultimate Righteous one to set things right. Someone else with no vested interest should set things ultimately right. Or no one at all should do so. I think that is what your attitude suggests.