Two Questions for Any Dyed in the Wool Atheists

Originally posted by sonhouse
Or not.

You and I make our decision accordingly.

One difference in my desicsion - the internal witness of the Holy Spirit that I am on the right track.

" In this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, that He has given to us of His Spirit." (1 John 4:13)

Being born again in receiving Christ the Savior results in the indwelling of powerful internal evidence that we are on the right path - the Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit. This Spirit is Christ Himself in His pneumatic form -

"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) and "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" (Rom 8:16)

God does not leave the one who trusts His words in a vacuum of "blind faith".
He does not leave it as a matter like Dorthy in the Wizard of Oz using her sheer will power to say "There's No place like home! There's No place like home! There's NO place like home!"

Rather there is an unspeakable PEACE deep in the believer's heart because of the presence of the Holy Spirit. And the believer knows that it was someone ADDED to him. He never summoned up this internal co-witnessing from himself.

Originally posted by googlefudge
In fairness it's not a line I made up...

But I can't for the life of me remember where I heard it or who from.

I remember hearing something like it, too.

It reminds me of Thomas Nagel's essay that asks what is it like to be a bat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_it_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F

Nagel doesn't try to say that consciousness or mind is brain-independent. But he says that an organism has conscious mental states, he argues, "if and only if there is something that it is like to be that organism—something it is like for the organism."

In addition to considering whether it makes any sense to ask what it was "like" before we were born, is to ask what it is like when we are in a dreamless sleep, or under general anesthesia. It is like -- not existing. Isn't it? And this is with our physical structures in place.

Originally posted by twhitehead

None so far, but when I think I am old enough to need a will, I will probably ask to be cremated. But I must note that this is for similar reasons as my Christian dad gave and has nothing to do with religion or atheism. Neither of us believed that the body or what happens to it has any real value to the person who died. As others have said, respect for ...[text shortened]... everyone, religious or otherwise so I am curious as to why you are asking atheists specifically.

"Just wondering."

Perhaps when you are older you'll grasp the irony.

Originally posted by jaywill

Good question.

It's the question I regularly ask theists and fail to get an answer.

It's simple really.

You must not have asked this theist (me). I would answer that I don't know. Then I would say I have the integrity and approvedness of one Jesus to trust His word on the matter in faith.

That is simple. I regar ...[text shortened]... awoke and remembered that you ARE.

Could be the same with physical death.

You never slept and TIME passed by which you were totally unaware of ?
It seems that you even forget who you were or that you were.
Ever happen ?

Like in a operation when you are deeply sedated. Your mind seemed GONE.
Then you awoke and remembered that you ARE.

Could be the same with physical death.

If you are going to use an analogy, you are going to be stuck with its conditions and implications. The condition here is that the physiological conditions are maintained throughout, and the implication is that these will be present in the situation you are trying to analogize. So while the statement "Could be the same" can be uttered, it is not justified by the analogy. Try the analogy with the sleeping or anesthetized person dying while under. Doesn't work, does it?

Originally posted by jaywill

What I think is theists are just fooling themselves and taking an extremely arrogant stance that a god would love them so much it would keep them going, after reproducing in the billions to the point where there would be literally trillions of souls floating around in some kind of eternal bliss, just a fantasy.

It is not arrogant to be ...[text shortened]... all should do so. I think that is what your attitude suggests.

It is not arrogant to believe that God loves me. It is arrogant to believe that God loves my sin and my sinning. But that God loves me ? This is not arrogance anymore than it is arrogance to believe my mother and father love me.

You believe that the entire freaking universe was created for our benefit.

That's arrogant.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Two Question for Any Dyed in the Wool Atheists


What happens to you when you physically die? What instructions have you given to your kith and kin pertaining to the disposition of your carcass? If the plan is a ceremonious open casket church funeral, gravesite internment service and a convivial catered post mortem reception with pricey food a ...[text shortened]... s my expressed wishe. My RHP Chess Opponents may claim any skulls, earned or not, at will.

gb[/b]

I'm not sure I'm what you mean as a dyed-in-the-wool-atheist, but as a confirmed non-believer, I couldn't give a monkey's what happens after I die. As far as I'm concerned, my nearest and dearest can sling my carcass into the nearest skip and carry on regardless. Or they can build a 600 foot pyre and gnash and wail and throw themselves on when the flames are at their peak. It's just not my concern. I'm also not going to be paying for it - honestly, is that the craziest thing in the world? People actually stumping up for their own funerals? Why would anybody do such a thing?

Originally posted by jaywill

Good question.

It's the question I regularly ask theists and fail to get an answer.

It's simple really.

You must not have asked this theist (me). I would answer that I don't know. Then I would say I have the integrity and approvedness of one Jesus to trust His word on the matter in faith.

That is simple. I regar awoke and remembered that you ARE.

Could be the same with physical death.

You must not have asked this theist (me). I would answer that I don't know. Then I would say I have the integrity and approvedness of one Jesus to trust His word on the matter in faith.

That is simple. I regard Christ an a reliable authority on the matter. He's been to death and back.

Well I generally ask everyone this question but if I haven't asked you I can certainly do it now...

You say you have "... the integrity and approvedness of one Jesus to trust His word on the matter in faith."

And you say that "He's [JC] been to death and back."

To which I say...

How do you know JC ever existed?

If he did, How do you know he was who he says he was?

How do you know that the words and events attributed to JC written by people AT LEAST 30 years after his death and in
some cases more than a century later are actually true and accurate accounts of what he actually said and did?

How do you know that JC has "been to death and back"?

How do you know that JC is "a reliable authority"?

How do you know god exists?

What foundation are you building any of this on?


And for me trust and faith mean totally different things.

There are things and people I trust, because I have experience and evidence that justifies that trust, and that trust is not absolute.
There are differing levels of trust I place in different things/people depending on the evidence I have of their reliability and the risks
associated with my trust being misplaced.

For example I generally trust that my car wont break down or the breaks fail, because I keep it well maintained and regularly serviced.
I chose a car from a well respected manufacturer with a good history of building reliable cars and the particular model has a good safety
and reliability record.

However I still take precautions against the possibility that it might break down by having insurance and breakdown cover as well as
various things like a torch and high vis jacket (tire pump/car jack....) as well as a mobile phone so I can call for help in the event that
I do break down and when I drive I always keep in mind my options for dealing with various things that could go wrong and have
rehearsed in my mind what to do in the event of particular malfunctions (including break failure) so that in the event that they happen
I know what to do and do it without panicking.


This is trust.

Faith is not the same thing.

Faith is belief without any evidence or justification and often/usually despite evidence to the contrary.


You don't have trust in JC, you can't have.

You don't even have convincing evidence that he even existed let alone was the person described in the bible.
Everything he is supposed to have said was written down by other people at least 30 years after his death and by
anonymous authors who probably never met the guy even if he did exist.

You have no evidence that god exists what so ever.

And evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that souls (a cornerstone of your faith) don't in fact exist.
meaning that neither does heaven or hell or any kind of afterlife.


What you have is faith, not trust.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Two Question for Any Dyed in the Wool Atheists


What happens to you when you physically die? What instructions have you given to your kith and kin pertaining to the disposition of your carcass? If the plan is a ceremonious open casket church funeral, gravesite internment service and a convivial catered post mortem reception with pricey food a ...[text shortened]... s my expressed wishe. My RHP Chess Opponents may claim any skulls, earned or not, at will.

gb[/b]

A1: I will burn forever and ever and ever and ... ever and ... ... ever and ... in God's loving lake of fiery torture

A2: cremated - to give me a taste of what's in store for my flammable (yet strangely resilient) soul for all eternity!


Have a nice day 🙂

Originally posted by Agerg
A1: I will burn forever and ever and ever and ... ever and ... ... ever and ... in God's loving lake of fiery torture

A2: cremated - to give me a taste of what's in store for my flammable soul for all eternity!


Have a nice day 🙂

I will burn forever and ever and ever and ... ever and ... ... ever and ... in God's loving lake of fiery torture

And it still sounds better than sucking up to god for all eternity...

Originally posted by googlefudge

You must not have asked this theist (me). I would answer that I don't know. [b]Then I would say I have the integrity and approvedness of one Jesus to trust His word on the matter in faith.

That is simple. I regard Christ an a reliable authority on the matter. He's been to death and back.

Well I generally ask everyone this q ...[text shortened]... heaven or hell or any kind of afterlife.


What you have is faith, not trust.[/b]

Just as an addendum to this Aaron Rah has just posted on his new blog a video of a lecture he gave on the nature of faith and it's place in society.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2012/06/20/the-role-of-faith-in-society/

Originally posted by googlefudge

I will burn forever and ever and ever and ... ever and ... ... ever and ... in God's loving lake of fiery torture

And it still sounds better than sucking up to god for all eternity...

Yeah imagine it....

"hey God you're awesome!" "I love you God" "you kick ass God!" ... (ten bazillion years pass) "God..what a guy...what a f****** guy" ... Oh no...i just praised God in my thoughts Reveal Hidden Content

because he can read minds, and gets pretty annoyed when you\'re not thinking about him - and thinking that he's absolutely fab flaming tastic every moment

and swore! Now he's going to banish me into hell with all my friends and family...better be extra sniveling and obsequious...oh crap - he knows I intend to kiss ass just to avoid hell - and I just swore in my thoughts again... "w wow God you're am am amazing!" ... "keep up the good work being fantastic God" "how did you get so awesome at being great God? Not that I'm jealous of course - jealousy is a sin... and I love you even more for that fact!" "uh-oh, now God will think I didn't love him perfectly before now..."

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Two Question for Any Dyed in the Wool Atheists


What happens to you when you physically die? What instructions have you given to your kith and kin pertaining to the disposition of your carcass? If the plan is a ceremonious open casket church funeral, gravesite internment service and a convivial catered post mortem reception with pricey food a ...[text shortened]... s my expressed wishe. My RHP Chess Opponents may claim any skulls, earned or not, at will.

gb[/b]

Geez I hope my family dont fork out 6000 buks or whatever for a 'funeral' . It would all be crap anyway and if I could still see then, I'm sure I'll look down and still think that that money could've been better spent.
As avalanche said- I couldn't give a rats what happens to me carcass.
Just give me a paupers funeral thanks.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Two Question for Any Dyed in the Wool Atheists


What happens to you when you physically die? What instructions have you given to your kith and kin pertaining to the disposition of your carcass? If the plan is a ceremonious open casket church funeral, gravesite internment service and a convivial catered post mortem reception with pricey food a ...[text shortened]... s my expressed wishe. My RHP Chess Opponents may claim any skulls, earned or not, at will.

gb[/b]

I also have made no arrangements.

I think I might point them at a few humanist organisations for ideas of ways to remember me that I would appreciate. However, I would make it clear that my funeral is for them, not me. I will no longer exist so I am hardly going to be affected by the kind of funeral they arrange.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by Penguin
I also have made no arrangements.

I think I might point them at a few humanist organisations for ideas of ways to remember me that I would appreciate. However, I would make it clear that my funeral is for them, not me. I will no longer exist so I am hardly going to be affected by the kind of funeral they arrange.

--- Penguin.

My family in Hungary, where ever (and who ever,lol) they are, all have their little holes picked out and payed for . (or paying off 😛)

So they can walk past this little bit of grass and point "There" ..." Thats where my remains will be".

I assume after that they would prolly want to goto the pub and have a few beers.

Sitting at the bar thinking " ...and to think, I'm paying 2000 buks for that hole !! Bartender!! "

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Two Question for Any Dyed in the Wool Atheists


What happens to you when you physically die? What instructions have you given to your kith and kin pertaining to the disposition of your carcass? If the plan is a ceremonious open casket church funeral, gravesite internment service and a convivial catered post mortem reception with pricey food a ...[text shortened]... s my expressed wishe. My RHP Chess Opponents may claim any skulls, earned or not, at will.

gb[/b]

OK my answer. I classify myself as a non-theist on the results of looking around in my mind for a belief in deity and finding none, and I may yet die in the wool, but anyway...

About 15 years ago my 4 sibs and I did a family writing project covering about 60 topics we dreamed up. Family history, could-have -beens, political rants, etc. It fills 5 3-inch binders and one big pdf.

I recommend this if you have family that will otherwise die with their memories.

One of the topics included preferences for handling our dead bodies.

I want to be ashed and scattered outside the Golden Gate and/or the Sunshine Skyway bridge (siehe dort at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Skyway_Bridge). Champagne or Gatorade, whatever.