05 Jun 06
Just been having a chat with someone about an experience which they had that converted them into a practising Christian.
I've been trying to explain my perspective on such experiences as an atheist, and I'd be interested in any other thoughts.
My view is that people will always attempt to understand and explain the experiences they go through, and will use whatever makes sense to them to do this. So someone who explains an unusual experience by religion does this because they are enculturated to do so.
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by amannionThere can always be others ways to explain anything, doesn't matter
Just been having a chat with someone about an experience which they had that converted them into a practising Christian.
I've been trying to explain my perspective on such experiences as an atheist, and I'd be interested in any other thoughts.
My view is that people will always attempt to understand and explain the experiences they go through, and will ...[text shortened]... o explains an unusual experience by religion does this because they are enculturated to do so.
if they vary from what is called natural or not. If I tell you about
something I believe was supernatual, and someone comes along
and says no no, it was really this way. You have a way to know who
is right or wrong, or do you believe you will pick according to your
current beliefs at the moment?
Kelly
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by KellyJayHmmm, not quite sure what was in my original post to draw such a response.
There can always be others ways to explain anything, doesn't matter
if they vary from what is called natural or not. If I tell you about
something I believe was supernatual, and someone comes along
and says no no, it was really this way. You have a way to know who
is right or wrong, or do you believe you will pick according to your
current beliefs at the moment?
Kelly
Of course I don't know who is right or wrong, and yes of course I will pick what I think according to my current beliefs. What else could anyone do?
You make it sound like my beliefs are swapping and changing. Why would you think this?
What I was actually interested in was two things I guess:
1. How do other non believers explain religious and spiritual experiences?
2. How do believers respond to rational or non-supernatural explanations of such experiences?
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by 7ate9It's hard to make sense of exactly what you're saying. I'm not sure exactly what your point is other than love seems to have helped you, which I can certainly understand.
a while ago i stood up for a friend against the police, and end up getting my life taken away. they didn't stop because it would show their wrongs. they wanted their good name any which way possible. links were used by them until i became agoraphobic. i ended up nailing curtains to my lounge windows as i felt safer with them never opening.
during a time wh ...[text shortened]... happy again. me, Jesus and her, even if they both weren't really there. love huh.
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by amannionWhat's a "religious" or "spiritual" experience?
Hmmm, not quite sure what was in my original post to draw such a response.
Of course I don't know who is right or wrong, and yes of course I will pick what I think according to my current beliefs. What else could anyone do?
You make it sound like my beliefs are swapping and changing. Why would you think this?
What I was actually interested in was two t ...[text shortened]...
2. How do believers respond to rational or non-supernatural explanations of such experiences?
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by amannionWhat was your friend before their conversion? A 'non-practicising' Christian?
Just been having a chat with someone about an experience which they had that converted them into a practising Christian.
I've been trying to explain my perspective on such experiences as an atheist, and I'd be interested in any other thoughts.
My view is that people will always attempt to understand and explain the experiences they go through, and will ...[text shortened]... o explains an unusual experience by religion does this because they are enculturated to do so.
I'm curious to know how you would explain dedicated atheists becoming Christians, and committed Christians becoming atheists. Because both happen.
And people also switch to dramatically different religions.
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by orfeoWhat is a practicing Christian?
What was your friend before their conversion? A 'non-practicising' Christian?
I'm curious to know how you would explain dedicated atheists becoming Christians, and committed Christians becoming atheists. Because both happen.
And people also switch to dramatically different religions.
Kelly
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by amannion"Hmmm, not quite sure what was in my original post to draw such a response."
Hmmm, not quite sure what was in my original post to draw such a response.
Of course I don't know who is right or wrong, and yes of course I will pick what I think according to my current beliefs. What else could anyone do?
You make it sound like my beliefs are swapping and changing. Why would you think this?
What I was actually interested in was two t ...[text shortened]...
2. How do believers respond to rational or non-supernatural explanations of such experiences?
Don't worry, KellyJay is a master at telling you what he wants to say without understanding what you asked.
Reading comprehension is not his strength.
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by 7ate9You are a paranoid schizophrenic.
a while ago i stood up for a friend against the police, and end up getting my life taken away. they didn't stop because it would show their wrongs. they wanted their good name any which way possible. links were used by them until i became agoraphobic. i ended up nailing curtains to my lounge windows as i felt safer with them never opening.
during a time wh ...[text shortened]... s. people who act in that manner can't do this. they should respect this fact.
Seek medical assistance immediately.
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI've never had a religious experience, so I couldn't answer that. I'm describing those type of experiences that people claim to have had where they've felt the presence of the Holy Spirit (in a Christian experience at least) entering them.
What's a "religious" or "spiritual" experience?
I attribute this to already being enculturated into a Christian society and using this idea (Holy Spirit) as the explanation.
I liken it to what I see as the analagous experience of someone encourntering an unusual aerial or atmospheric phenomena and attributing this to extraterrestrial intelligence. In essence, they use that explanation because it's the one closest to hand and the one they're most familiar with and which most fits with their views of the world.
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by orfeoGlibly I'd say committed atheists becoming christians have lost their mind and christians becoming atheists have found theirs, but I don't have a better response to this.
What was your friend before their conversion? A 'non-practicising' Christian?
I'm curious to know how you would explain dedicated atheists becoming Christians, and committed Christians becoming atheists. Because both happen.
And people also switch to dramatically different religions.
I would suspect that an atheist who claims to have become a christian was never really an atheist at all, but that's just a thought. Committed christians becoming atheists I can better understand.
And you're right people change to other religions.
But for most people, their religion is the one that their parents followed, and their friends and local community. This is part of the enculturation of religions.
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by amannionI think a number of different experiences could be described as "the presence of the Holy Spirit". For example, one might feel a sense of calming relief once one had decided upon a particular method of resolving some dilemma and call that "the presence of the Holy Spirit". I would call it normal human psychology.
I've never had a religious experience, so I couldn't answer that. I'm describing those type of experiences that people claim to have had where they've felt the presence of the Holy Spirit (in a Christian experience at least) entering them.
I attribute this to already being enculturated into a Christian society and using this idea (Holy Spirit) as the expla ...[text shortened]... and the one they're most familiar with and which most fits with their views of the world.
05 Jun 06
Originally posted by amannionWell no.
Someone who practices Christianity?
What other answer were you looking for?
Isn't it obvious?
What does one do to practice being a Christian?
I define a Christian as someone in a right relationship with God
through Jesus Christ. Someone who is just doing the 'Christian'
things, and one who has a relationship have completely different
foundations, if by practicing you mean just doing certain things
that is.
Kelly