1. Account suspended
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    09 Mar '15 15:592 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    Fine, but you do not see the city of San Francisco busing these people back to Nevada, You see it seeking to recover money spent. Fort Lauderdale is nowhere near the levels seen in SFO.

    I DOES matter if it attracts more people. There are unintended consequences for any municipality that opens its arms wide, and for the homeless themselves. Broader based so ...[text shortened]... sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-fort-lauderdale-versus-homeless-history-20141113-story.html#page=1
    I cannot read it it says i need to sign up. Yes but do you have evidence that there are hordes of homeless people descending on Fort Lauderdale in order to procure charity? How much does it cost to make a pot of soup? bake some loves of bread? You could feed persons very cheaply, heck i could brew them top notch quality beer for 30 cents a half litre and it would be good and wholesome and healthy.
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    09 Mar '15 16:072 edits
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Yes it does matter.

    Because their resources, their budgets, are finite. And generally a lot smaller than they aught
    to be.

    So a system set up to help the people in need you currently have may not be able to cope
    with more coming in from elsewhere.

    For one state to ship people in desperate need of support to someone else's jurisdiction to
    g ...[text shortened]... rt from anything else.

    This is one of the many reasons for investing properly in foreign aid.
    Ok but as yet there is no evidence of a huge influx of homeless people descending upon Fort Lauderdale in order to avail themselves of the charity and even if there were these are charities and private individuals who are being denied the freedom to express generosity to those who are less fortunate. If their resources go bust the influx of homeless persons shall simply dissipate away. If that was Europe the state would find themselves before the European court of human rights faster than you can call your lawyers. I refuse to believe that there would be such an influx of persons that Fort Lauderdale would be overwhelmed. Something can always be done. How much does it cost to make a pot of soup and bake bread and brew beer? pennies if we are honest.
  3. Standard memberRBHILL
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    09 Mar '15 16:47
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Laws making it illegal to feed the homeless!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/03/fort-lauderdale-feeding-homeless_n_6094234.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    They should get a home before they deserve a meal!!!
    In Fresno, CA every Saturday local Christians feed about 200+ out on the street. They are all in the middle of the road. But it's not in a neighborhood where someone would be driving down the street. Local PD also drive by every 15 minutes during their shift.
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    09 Mar '15 16:54
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    In Fresno, CA every Saturday local Christians feed about 200+ out on the street. They are all in the middle of the road. But it's not in a neighborhood where someone would be driving down the street. Local PD also drive by every 15 minutes during their shift.
    Look at this in contrast to the government of Fort Lauderdale,

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/03/05/3630141/indianapolis-homeless-bill-of-rights/

    a homeless Bill of rights.
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    09 Mar '15 16:561 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I cannot read it it says i need to sign up. Yes but do you have evidence that there are hordes of homeless people descending on Fort Lauderdale in order to procure charity? How much does it cost to make a pot of soup? bake some loves of bread? You could feed persons very cheaply, heck i could brew them top notch quality beer for 30 cents a half litre and it would be good and wholesome and healthy.
    I was able to get past that first screen by clicking the X at upper right of the popup.

    Fear is not a rational reaction so I can't rationalize it. The town has a reputation of hostility to the homeless (hope you can see the article) so I doubt hordes are arriving.
    Costs in San Francisco:

    " The City spends $81.5 million annually for 6,355 supportive units, or about $13,000 per unit. Of the 6,436 homeless individuals counted in last year’s homeless count, 3,401 were on the streets without shelter while the other homeless people counted resided in shelters, transitional housing, resource centers, residential treatment, jail or hospitals.

    If The City wanted enough supportive housing units for the 3,401 on the streets, it would cost an additional $44.2 million. That’s one way of looking at it as The City attempts to reduce a homeless population whose numbers have remained flat for the past 12 years."

    http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/sf-spends-1657-million-on-homeless-but-its-still-not-enough/Content?oid=2730887

    Apparently the costs to Fort L are lower. It has 2000-3000 homeless, nearby Miami has 3000-4000. SF has 6000-7000.
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    09 Mar '15 17:02
    Originally posted by JS357
    I was able to get past that first screen by clicking the X at upper right of the popup.

    Fear is not a rational reaction so I can't rationalize it. The town has a reputation of hostility to the homeless (hope you can see the article) so I doubt hordes are arriving.
    Costs in San Francisco:

    " The City spends $81.5 million annually for 6,355 supportive uni ...[text shortened]... ts to Fort L are lower. It has 2000-3000 homeless, nearby Miami has 3000-4000. SF has 6000-7000.
    Sure cost is one thing, but they have gone beyond that in Fort Lauderdale, they are seeking to criminalise being homeless and to criminalise people seeking to help homeless people.
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    09 Mar '15 17:05
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Look at this in contrast to the government of Fort Lauderdale,

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/03/05/3630141/indianapolis-homeless-bill-of-rights/

    a homeless Bill of rights.
    Apparently it hasn't yet been signed by the Republican mayor.

    There is a wikipedia article about Homeless Bill Of Rights.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Mar '15 00:04
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    And in similar vein...

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/03/05/conference_of_catholic_bishops_on_raped_migrant_girls_we_can_t_help_unless.html?wpisrc=burger_bar

    ThinkProgress reports that the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops is demanding, in the name of religious freedom, the right to keep underage migrants who have be ...[text shortened]... ust requires that they do not get in the way of refugees who want that care. .......
    OMG that's barbaric.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Mar '15 00:09
    Originally posted by JS357
    "This thread is about an allegedly Christian state denying the right to express charity."

    The obvious reason is either that it's not a "Christian state" or Christianity is not always pro-charity. Which do people here think it is, and why? (It could, of course, be both.)
    Christianity is all about being pro-charity.

    Obviously, it's that those who make laws like this aren't practicing the tenets of Christianity, for sure.
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Mar '15 00:13
    Originally posted by JS357
    Please read this:

    "The city of San Francisco is suing Nevada over a state psychiatric facility that allegedly dumped thousands of poor and homeless patients with mental illnesses onto buses with one-way tickets to states like California and told them to seek medical care there. City attorneys claim that the practice cost San Francisco $500,000 in public fun ...[text shortened]...

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/09/11/2602391/san-francisco-sues-nevada-patient-dumping/
    Good!

    With the huge amount of revenue Las Vegas brings in, you'd surely think Nevada could do more to care for its least-affluent citizens.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Mar '15 00:27
    Originally posted by JS357
    I was able to get past that first screen by clicking the X at upper right of the popup.

    Fear is not a rational reaction so I can't rationalize it. The town has a reputation of hostility to the homeless (hope you can see the article) so I doubt hordes are arriving.
    Costs in San Francisco:

    " The City spends $81.5 million annually for 6,355 supportive uni ...[text shortened]... ts to Fort L are lower. It has 2000-3000 homeless, nearby Miami has 3000-4000. SF has 6000-7000.
    This is what I took away from this article:

    "But supporters point out that the bill isn’t just about increased protection for homeless people. It’s also about finances. “It is much more cost-effective to provide support services and assistance to those experiencing homelessness in our city, than to arrest them,” Councilman LeRoy Robinson (D) told The IndyStar. There’s plenty of evidence to back this idea up. A study in Florida found it costs the state $31,065 in medical and incarceration costs per each chronically homeless person left on the streets every year, compared to the $10,051 cost of giving the same person permanent housing and services like health care and job training. A shelter in Fort Lyon, Colorado will cost less than $17,000 per person versus the $43,240 it costs to leave her unsheltered and interacting with the police and hospital systems. An apartment complex intended for the homeless in Charlotte, North Carolina saved $1.8 million."

    But that Indianapolis Republican mayor still hasn't signed this bill. What the hell is he waiting for? Doesn't this address his fiduciary concerns?
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    11 Mar '15 00:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    You are becoming hysterical Whoders. Try to focus on what Christian principles prevent one from feeding the homeless. Are you saying that this is the work of secularists and if the government had been acting on Christian principles they would not have outlawed feeding the homeless.
    Perhaps a society that embraces the genocide of the unborn should be homeless.
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    11 Mar '15 00:39
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Are you saying the "lefties" are an incarnation of the Beast now?
    Skimming through Revelation is appears that the state becomes so intrusive that you will need a "mark" to buy or sell.

    Looking at the left today and how they try to micromanage our every move, they seem to fit the bill, but who knows.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Mar '15 00:49
    Originally posted by whodey
    Skimming through Revelation is appears that the state becomes so intrusive that you will need a "mark" to buy or sell.

    Looking at the left today and how they try to micromanage our every move, they seem to fit the bill, but who knows.
    You know, your continual chant of "less centralized government" might sit better with me, if I wasn't from a conservative, Republican state that can't run anything without screwing it up. Thank God for the Federal Government or we'd be worse off than a third-world nation.
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    11 Mar '15 00:581 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This is what I took away from this article:

    "But supporters point out that the bill isn’t just about increased protection for homeless people. It’s also about finances. “It is much more cost-effective to provide support services and assistance to those experiencing homelessness in our city, than to arrest them,” Councilman LeRoy Robinson (D) told The Ind ...[text shortened]... igned this bill. What the hell is he waiting for? Doesn't this address his fiduciary concerns?
    Yes.

    In the following I'm not lecturing you; you don't need lecturing by anyone. Your reply just give me the opportunity to get this off my chest.

    Aside from ignoring, for partisan reasons, the facts about cost/benefit of care versus not-care for the homeless, the third strategy is to make the town, or county, or state, inhospitable to the homeless, or more inhospitable than the next town or county or state.

    The moral issue in Kantian terms is that this tactic will be a race to the bottom of the virtue ladder. His categorical imperative is, in a moral choice situation, choose the alternative you would have everyone choose. Every town, county, state, country seeking to be the least hospitable to the homeless will lead us into starving them out. But the system will create more of them. A certain percentage will have a mental disease. Reagan set them free in the 80's.

    http://www.povertyinsights.org/2013/10/14/did-reagans-crazy-mental-health-policies-cause-todays-homelessness/

    "Within our country’s homeless population, a quarter of a million people—or one-third of the homeless population—struggle with some sort of mental illness."
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