Vishvahetu & Animal killing

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I dont eat eggs, because eggs are the menstral cycle of a chicken. (low class)....where did you get this from?

You should really stop with the fault finding attitude.

I assumed you eat eggs, because you said that the vegan diet is nonsense.
I didn't know you excluded eggs.

So do you drink milk? Eat cheese?

In other words, why does the following (from your first post) apply for meat, but not for other animal products?

(...) it is food in the mode of ignorance, and has a negative physco / physical affect on the mind and senses, and suppresses spiritual growth.


I have the fault finding attitude in order to know what is true and what is fault. I am not stopping with that.

Originally posted by Thomaster
I assumed you eat eggs, because you said that the vegan diet is nonsense.
I didn't know you excluded eggs.

So do you drink milk? Eat cheese?

In other words, why does the following (from your first post) apply for meat, but not for other animal products?

[i](...) it is food in the mode of ignorance, and has a negative physco / physical affect on ...[text shortened]... finding attitude in order to know what is true and what is fault. I am not stopping with that.

It is the perfect arrangment of God, that a humble cow eats grass, and even fertilizes the ground, and gives freely her milk for man, and man can make cheese yogurt, cream, curd, ghee, butter....all from milk.

You dont have to kill the cow to get these wonderfull products, and this is why the cow is refered as "mother cow" because she cares for man, like a mother.

Vegans dont consume these wonderfull foods from the cow, because they speculate what is meant by vegetarian.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
It is the perfect arrangment of God, that a humble cow eats grass, and even fertilizes the ground, and gives freely her milk for man, and man can make cheese yogurt, cream, curd, ghee, butter....all from milk.

You dont have to kill the cow to get these wonderfull products, and this is why the cow is refered as "mother cow" because she cares for man, li ...[text shortened]... nsume these wonderfull foods from the cow, because they speculate what is meant by vegetarian.

According to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_cattle

''According to a Californian industry report, the natural lifespan of a dairy cow is approximately 15–25 years, however dairy cows are rarely kept longer than five years prior to slaughter.[3] Herd life is strongly correlated with production levels.
Approximately 17 percent[citation needed] of the US beef supply comes from cull dairy cows: cows that can no longer be seen as a economic asset to the dairy farm.''

and also:

''Most dairy farms separate calves from their mothers within a day of birth to reduce transmission of disease and simplify management of milking cows.''

I fail to see how these cows give their milk freely.

Originally posted by Thomaster
According to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_cattle

''According to a Californian industry report, the natural lifespan of a dairy cow is approximately 15–25 years, however dairy cows are rarely kept longer than five years prior to slaughter.[3] Herd life is strongly correlated with production levels.
Approximately 17 percent[citation need fy management of milking cows.''

I fail to see how these cows give their milk freely.

Vedic cow protection, does not take the calf from its mother at a young age.......and what the commercial dealers are doing, is out of my control.

This world is run by atheistic, non careing persons, but if the world where governed by Vedic principles, there would be far less problems in all facets of agriculture.

And cows in an automated factory, may not give there milk so freely, but in the Vedic style of milking, they are surely content...

Remember that its a Vedic principle to protect the cow. (they get pampered)

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Vedic cow protection, does not take the calf from its mother at a young age.......and what the commercial dealers are doing, is out of my control.

This world is run by atheistic, non careing persons, but if the world where governed by Vedic principles, there would be far less problems in all facets of agriculture.

Vedic cow protection isn't a solution. If all cows lived longer, we would need
much more cows in order to have enough milk, and so we would need
more room for these animals.
It can only be stopped with a combination of cow protection
and drinking less milk.

As long as you use products made by non caring persons, while there are
alternatives, you cannot blame them for all of it. You are helping them.

Originally posted by Thomaster
Vedic cow protection isn't a solution. If all cows lived longer, we would need
much more cows in order to have enough milk, and so we would need
more room for these animals.
It can only be stopped with a combination of cow protection
and drinking less milk.

As long as you use products made by non caring persons, while there are
alternatives, you cannot blame them for all of it. You are helping them.

Vedic cow protection is the only solution, but you must remember that, Vedic cow protection alone, in a world where there is no other Vedic influence or control, is problamatic to say the least..

In a Vedic world, the cow protection would fit right in nicely, but in this world, you are right it would have its problems.

If i buy an apple from a non caring person, i still get to eat the apple, and the non caring person, can be a caring person any time they want. ......I dont make the person non caring by purchase of the apple....do I?

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Vedic cow protection is the only solution, but you must remember that, Vedic cow protection alone, in a world where there is no other Vedic influence or control, is problamatic to say the least..

In a Vedic world, the cow protection would fit right in nicely, but in this world, you are right it would have its problems.

If i buy an apple from a non c ...[text shortened]... on any time they want. ......I dont make the person non caring by purchase of the apple....do I?

To make the total milk consumption go down, either people must drink less milk, or there must be less living people.
Because you don't think it's needed to not drink milk, I guess your solution is that there will be less people.
What do you think the best way to do that? What does Vedanta say about that? (I remember your profile saying you have children.)

I don't know if you can make people non caring by parchasing apples, but at least you help them to continue their non caring apple activities.

Originally posted by Thomaster
To make the total milk consumption go down, either people must drink less milk, or there must be less living people.
Because you don't think it's needed to not drink milk, I guess your solution is that there will be less people.
What do you think the best way to do that? What does Vedanta say about that? (I remember your profile saying you have childre ...[text shortened]... parchasing apples, but at least you help them to continue their non caring apple activities.

I am not following, why do we need to have less milk, just because cows live longer.

If i buy an apple from a non caring person, what does that have to do with my path that i am on.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I am not following, why do we need to have less milk, just because cows live longer.

If i buy an apple from a non caring person, what does that have to do with my path that i am on.

Old cows give less milk, that's why they're being killed.
If you want to have older cows, you need more cows for the same amount of milk.
Because earth's surface isn't infinite, we must choose how we will use all the space there is.
How much extra room do you give to diary farms?

You could have chosen to buy the apple from a caring person, so the non caring apple producer isn't able to continue his non caring apple activities. Maybe it isn't your ''path'', but you certainly can influence other paths.

Originally posted by Thomaster
Old cows give less milk, that's why they're being killed.
If you want to have older cows, you need more cows for the same amount of milk.
Because earth's surface isn't infinite, we must choose how we will use all the space there is.
How much extra room do you give to diary farms?

You could have chosen to buy the apple from a caring person, so the no ...[text shortened]... activities. Maybe it isn't your ''path'', but you certainly can influence other paths.

Ok, firstly there is enough room for old cows and new cows.....I live in Australia, and when I drive from Melbourne to Brisbane, I go past miles and miles and miles of vacant flat green land....no problems, and room for 5 million cows.

Also there is thousands of acres of land that is used for fodder, to give to beef cows to fatten them up for slaughter, and that land could be used for crops instead.

When i buy an apple from the apple man, I dont know if he is caring or not, but the devotees of the Lord are never entangled in the material worlds affairs, like the non devotees...see Bhagavad Gita cht 5 verse 7 and 10

The only safe position in this world, is the position of being a practicing student on the path of self realization.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Ok, firstly there is enough room for old cows and new cows.....I live in Australia, and when I drive from Melbourne to Brisbane, I go past miles and miles and miles of vacant flat green land....no problems, and room for 5 million cows.

Also there is thousands of acres of land that is used for fodder, to give to beef cows to fatten them up for slaughter ...[text shortened]... on in this world, is the position of being a practicing student on the path of self realization.

I am looking forward to drinking Australian milk. I hope it is
as tasty as the milk that didn't travel over half the globe.

When i buy an apple from the apple man, I dont know if he is caring or not

So when I eat meat, I can simply say that I do not know
that the animals didn't die because of natural causes?
That the animals weren't killed in self defence?

Of course it is possible to not know these things, but I think it is a weak defence now I told you.

Originally posted by Thomaster
I am looking forward to drinking Australian milk. I hope it is
as tasty as the milk that didn't travel over half the globe.

When i buy an apple from the apple man, I dont know if he is caring or not

So when I eat meat, I can simply say that I do not know
that the animals didn't die because of natural causes?
That the animals weren't kille ...[text shortened]... rse it is possible to not know these things, but I think it is a weak defence now I told you.

Your attitude is one of smugness, you do not know, and you do not care, you are wanting to win a discussion, and i am only wanting to bring you to a higher consciouness,

Did you look up the verses I suggested, that would explain the apple seller question,... which i think was only a question to try and trap me.

You are good with numbers and puzzles, and i am just an amusement for your boredom.

Will you still eat meat, buy apples, drink milk, do you care, one way or the other, probably not.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Your attitude is one of smugness, you do not know, and you do not care, you are wanting to win a discussion, and i am only wanting to bring you to a higher consciouness,

Did you look up the verses I suggested, that would explain the apple seller question,... which i think was only a question to try and trap me.

You are good with numbers and puzzles, ...[text shortened]... ill you still eat meat, buy apples, drink milk, do you care, one way or the other, probably not.

I am wanting to know what you mean and why you think it to be true.
You seem to be inconsistent, so I ask you these questions.
You say that, if we eat meat, it is certain that we will suffer another life when
we die. But on the other hand, you say that the vegan diet is nonsense.
I find both extreme.

I read a Dutch translation of both verses, and I didn't understand a word of it.
Yes, I am bored, I find discussing this sort of things amusing, and I am good with numbers. Why did you mention this?

And I eat meat, don't buy apples, and drink lots of milk (2 litres a day on average).
I am not discussing with you because I want you to not drink milk or such a thing.
I am discussing with you because I don't understand you, because I don't see that you're not inconsistent.

Originally posted by Thomaster
I am looking forward to drinking Australian milk. I hope it is
as tasty as the milk that didn't travel over half the globe.

When i buy an apple from the apple man, I dont know if he is caring or not

So when I eat meat, I can simply say that I do not know
that the animals didn't die because of natural causes?
That the animals weren't kille ...[text shortened]... rse it is possible to not know these things, but I think it is a weak defence now I told you.

I suspect "Australian milk" is treated just like anywhere else, and the end product is very low in nutrients.
The cows on krsna farms are happy,(I swear I could see their eyes glow), and the milk is delicous and nutritous. I suspect this is the same for krsna farms around the world.
While the krsnas may not be perfect, I see their general lifestyle more benficial for the Earth than the average Australian I see getting around...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I suspect "Australian milk" is treated just like anywhere else, and the end product is very low in nutrients.
The cows on krsna farms are happy,(I swear I could see their eyes glow), and the milk is delicous and nutritous. I suspect this is the same for krsna farms around the world.
While the krsnas may not be perfect, I see their general lifestyle more benficial for the Earth than the average Australian I see getting around...

Everything you said is correct, but I will tell you a sad thing.

The krsna,s are going through a crisis at present, and the trouble started in the 70,s. There having a lot of problems with some bogus devotees, who have managed to work their way into the managment of the movement, and there are allegations of child abuse and sexual misconduct.

The persons have been identified, and there are efforts to remove them,....mean while the rest of the congregation are doing fine.

This shows us all that a person on the spiritual path, must stay fixed to the principles, without deviation, or they can easily end up where they began in the first place, doing their nonsense.

There is actually a break away group, which is disassociating itself, from these deviates.

So now we have two Hare Krsna movements.