1. Standard memberAgerg
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    02 Oct '10 01:094 edits
    Vishvahetu, you mention that any religion that endorses the killing of animals is automatically bogus. I have my own reasons for thinking they're all bogus but that's beside the point...Why is this assertion true? Can you argue your case here without appealing to your holy book? i.e. is there a logical and/or empirical argument you can present to us that clearly demonstrates the veracity of your claim beyond "vedanta says no"?

    Secondly do you advocate the indirect killing of animals by way of the damage done to their habitats as humans gather resources (pollution, large scale forest felling, appropriating lands for roads and buildings etc...) such that, amongst other things, there exists a supply of vegan food within your convenient reach?
  2. Standard memberDasa
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    02 Oct '10 02:29
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Vishvahetu, you mention that any religion that endorses the killing of animals is automatically bogus. I have my own reasons for thinking they're [b]all bogus but that's beside the point...Why is this assertion true? Can you argue your case here without appealing to your holy book? i.e. is there a logical and/or empirical argument you can present to us tha ...[text shortened]... hat, amongst other things, there exists a supply of vegan food within your convenient reach?[/b]
    A student on the spiritual path, soon becomes so senative to the life all around him, that he will even step over an ant.

    Slaughter houses cause suffering to the animal, and if an animal dies of natural causes, then by all by all means eat it, but the person with spiritual understanding wont, because it is food in the mode of ignorance, and has a negative physco / physical affect on the mind and senses, and suppresses spiritual growth.

    Eating meat will assure you, that you will take birth again in this world.

    I am not a vegan....the vegan diet is nonsense.

    As for frogs insects and birds and ants that die in the clearing of land, there is kama for everything, but the person on the spiritual path that practices the devotional teachings for gaining higher consciouness, they are exempt from that karma, because of the involement in the spiritual life.

    The person who has no care for spiritual life, would have to recieve the karma of the clearing process, therefore the spiritual life is the only life to live, for getting out of this temporary world of suffering.
  3. Joined
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    02 Oct '10 02:381 edit
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    A student on the spiritual path, soon becomes so senative to the life all around him, that he will even step over an ant.

    Slaughter houses cause suffering to the animal, and if an animal dies of natural causes, then by all by all means eat it, but the person with spiritual understanding wont, because it is food in the mode of ignorance, and has a negat ...[text shortened]... e spiritual life is the only life to live, for getting out of this temporary world of suffering.
    the person on the spiritual path that practices the devotional teachings for gaining higher consciouness, they are exempt from that karma, because of the involement in the spiritual life.

    Haven't heard this before. Can you back this assertion up with the Upanishads or the Gita?
  4. Standard memberDasa
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    02 Oct '10 05:06
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]the person on the spiritual path that practices the devotional teachings for gaining higher consciouness, they are exempt from that karma, because of the involement in the spiritual life.

    Haven't heard this before. Can you back this assertion up with the Upanishads or the Gita?[/b]
    Bhagavad Gita Cht3 verse 13
    " " Cht 4 verse 36 & 37
    Cht 5 verse 16 &17
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    02 Oct '10 09:14
    I believe we should consider where our food, especially meat is coming from. I certainly don't want to support butchers that sell meat that has had less than a healthy, free range life.
    Killing any life incurs bad karma. The bad karma can be removed by meditating or chanting (or so it is sad).
    I suggest everone support organic/free range butchers. The animals we do eat should enjoy decent lives until they are killed for our food.
  6. Joined
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    02 Oct '10 09:321 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I believe we should consider where our food, especially meat is coming from. I certainly don't want to support butchers that sell meat that has had less than a healthy, free range life.
    Killing any life incurs bad karma. The bad karma can be removed by meditating or chanting (or so it is sad).
    I suggest everone support organic/free range butchers. The animals we do eat should enjoy decent lives until they are killed for our food.
    I agree, this is something everyone should be interested in; I always buy free-range food (but not always organic).

    Not sure about the chanting and all though, just read the label 😕
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    02 Oct '10 09:42
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    A student on the spiritual path, soon becomes so senative to the life all around him, that he will even step over an ant.

    Slaughter houses cause suffering to the animal, and if an animal dies of natural causes, then by all by all means eat it, but the person with spiritual understanding wont, because it is food in the mode of ignorance, and has a negat ...[text shortened]... e spiritual life is the only life to live, for getting out of this temporary world of suffering.
    “....Slaughter houses cause suffering to the animal, ...”

    Grant you that may be true, but not necessary so; it just depends how it is done.
    It must be possible to kill an animal without causing it suffering. For example, by putting a bullet to it's brain. If a farm animal had a good life (free range ) and was killed quickly and painlessly, we could then argue that we didn't cause animal suffering. Would you reject to the killing of the animal then?

    And what about people that are hunter and gatherers and hunt wild animals for food to keep themselves alive? They surely haven't got much choice on the matter?

    Note that I generally approve of vegetarianism, but that is for very different reasons; specifically, the sustainable use of our dangerously overstretched limited resources.
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    02 Oct '10 09:541 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I agree, this is something everyone should be interested in; I always buy free-range food (but not always organic).

    Not sure about the chanting and all though, just read the label 😕
    Chanting is not for everyone. I'm more interested in the mechanics/psycology behind the chanting/meditation. What happens in the brain/mind when it is done right? I dont know about peer-reviewed studies but I have heard of plenty of info that suggests spiritual practice is good for your health,( including eating mainly vegetables.)
  9. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    02 Oct '10 09:58
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    “....Slaughter houses cause suffering to the animal, ...”

    Grant you that may be true, but not necessary so; it just depends how it is done.
    It must be possible to kill an animal without causing it suffering. For example, by putting a bullet to it's brain. If a farm animal had a good life (free range ) and was killed quickly and painlessly, we cou ...[text shortened]... easons; specifically, the sustainable use of our dangerously overstretched limited resources.
    I think vishvas views would not endorse killing of an animal for meat, unless there was absolutely nothing else to eat..but I may be wrong. Vishva?
  10. Standard memberDasa
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    02 Oct '10 11:25
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    “....Slaughter houses cause suffering to the animal, ...”

    Grant you that may be true, but not necessary so; it just depends how it is done.
    It must be possible to kill an animal without causing it suffering. For example, by putting a bullet to it's brain. If a farm animal had a good life (free range ) and was killed quickly and painlessly, we cou ...[text shortened]... easons; specifically, the sustainable use of our dangerously overstretched limited resources.
    Why just stop at chops and bacon, what about monkey brains, kangaroo testicals, tripe, eyeballs.etc.

    All flesh is food in the mode of ignorance, see Bhagavad Gita Cht 17 verses 7,8,9and 10.

    Persons on the spiritual path do not partake of the carcass,s of dead animals, because it low class, and bad for health.

    An animal in the slaughter house, can smell the death and fear, reguardless of the method of killing.
  11. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    02 Oct '10 11:39
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Why just stop at chops and bacon, what about monkey brains, kangaroo testicals, tripe, eyeballs.etc.

    All flesh is food in the mode of ignorance, see Bhagavad Gita Cht 17 verses 7,8,9and 10.

    Persons on the spiritual path do not partake of the carcass,s of dead animals, because it low class, and bad for health.

    An animal in the slaughter house, can smell the death and fear, reguardless of the method of killing.
    what about monkey brains, kangaroo testicals, tripe, eyeballs.etc.


    have you not watched "I'm a celebrity get me out of here!"
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    02 Oct '10 11:42
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Why just stop at chops and bacon, what about monkey brains, kangaroo testicals, tripe, eyeballs.etc.

    All flesh is food in the mode of ignorance, see Bhagavad Gita Cht 17 verses 7,8,9and 10.

    Persons on the spiritual path do not partake of the carcass,s of dead animals, because it low class, and bad for health.

    An animal in the slaughter house, can smell the death and fear, reguardless of the method of killing.
    “...An animal in the slaughter house, can SMELL the death and fear, ...” (my emphasis )

    I don't think I have heard of this one.
  13. Cape Town
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    02 Oct '10 13:361 edit
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    A student on the spiritual path, soon becomes so senative to the life all around him, that he will even step over an ant.
    Why? What is so special about an ant, yet not so special when it comes to bacteria (you do wash your hands don't you?) and plants (you must eat something)?

    Do you advocate against the use of insecticides? Or is your concern for ants merely about appearances?
  14. Standard memberAgerg
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    02 Oct '10 14:32
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Bhagavad Gita Cht3 verse 13
    " " Cht 4 verse 36 & 37
    Cht 5 verse 16 &17
    The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin.

    Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, when you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will be able to cross over the ocean of miseries.
    As a blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities.

    When, however, one is enlightened with the knowledge by which nescience is destroyed, then his knowledge reveals everything, as the sun lights up everything in the daytime.
    When one's intelligence, mind, faith and refuge are all fixed in the Supreme, then one becomes fully cleansed of misgivings through complete knowledge and thus proceeds straight on the path of liberation.


    If from these you infer that a follower of your faith who has killed animals indirectly is exempt from so called karma then one can equally infer that followers of your faith that rip live animals to shreds and eat them are also exempt from said karma.
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    02 Oct '10 14:43
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    “...An animal in the slaughter house, can SMELL the death and fear, ...” (my emphasis )

    I don't think I have heard of this one.
    i agree with Visha here (on the smelling fear part) We visited an abbatoir many years ago when they had sheep & cows waiting to be killed and the animals definetly "knew" they were going to die in the immiedate future - the noise was quite disturbing - at the time we didnt eat meat for a few days afterwards and l can still remember this approx 30 years later.
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