1. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    13 Dec '05 04:15
    I heard it claimed that Luke is the only Gospel that describes a virgin birth. None of the others state that Mary is a virgin. Is this the case?

    Further, the source from which I heard this explained it by observing that Luke was Greek, and came from a culture in which virgin births were a mythological staple.

    Comment.
  2. Account suspended
    Joined
    10 Nov '05
    Moves
    17944
    13 Dec '05 04:28
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I heard it claimed that Luke is the only Gospel that describes a virgin birth. None of the others state that Mary is a virgin. Is this the case?

    Further, the source from which I heard this explained it by observing that Luke was Greek, and came from a culture in which virgin births were a mythological staple.

    Comment.
    I don't believe in jesus, mary or any of that crap but u think that someone that was supposed to be married was a virgin, hmmm don't think so!
  3. Halifax, NS
    Joined
    08 Jan '05
    Moves
    2652
    13 Dec '05 04:36
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I heard it claimed that Luke is the only Gospel that describes a virgin birth. None of the others state that Mary is a virgin. Is this the case?

    Further, the source from which I heard this explained it by observing that Luke was Greek, and came from a culture in which virgin births were a mythological staple.

    Comment.
    Matthew and Luke are the only two gospels that record the birth of Jesus.

    Matthew 1:18-25:

    This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
    But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
    All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"—which means, "God with us."
    When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
  4. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    13 Dec '05 04:41
    Originally posted by joelek
    Matthew and Luke are the only two gospels that record the birth of Jesus.

    Matthew 1:18-25:

    This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, [b]she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit
    . Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not wa ...[text shortened]... But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.[/b]
    This does not state or entail that Mary is a virgin.
  5. Not Kansas
    Joined
    10 Jul '04
    Moves
    6405
    13 Dec '05 04:48
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    This does not state or entail that Mary is a virgin.
    Does "Immaculate Conception" refer to Mary or Jesus?
  6. Halifax, NS
    Joined
    08 Jan '05
    Moves
    2652
    13 Dec '05 04:52
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    This does not state or entail that Mary is a virgin.
    With that outlook, neither does Luke. Luke only states that she was a virgin when the angel came to her. That was before she was pregnant. And it states that the child would be of the Holy Spirit. But it doesn't specifically say that she was a virgin at the time of Jesus' birth.
  7. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    13 Dec '05 04:55
    Originally posted by joelek
    With that outlook, neither does Luke. Luke only states that she was a virgin when the angel came to her. That was before she was pregnant. And it states that the child would be of the Holy Spirit. But it doesn't specifically say that she was a virgin at the time of Jesus' birth.
    Does it state or entail that she was a virgin at the time of conception?
  8. Standard memberDavid C
    Flamenco Sketches
    Spain, in spirit
    Joined
    09 Sep '04
    Moves
    59422
    13 Dec '05 04:56
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Comment.
    "Mary" is an anthropomorphization of the constellation Virgo.

    http://www.indigosun.com/Dec2000/winter_solstice.htm

    Thus evolved the ancient religions of the Sun Gods. These "Sun" religions abound with legends of a Solar Man Ancient religious traditions teem with stories about the Hindu Sun God Krishna, the Egyptian Horus, the Greek Helios, the Persian Mithra, the Druidic Hesus, and the Nordic Yule. The birthday of these "Sun Gods" or "Solar Men" (whether they lived or not) was celebrated on December 25. They were often referred to as "The Light of the World" or "The Savior of the World" from darkness. These "Solar Men", part divine and part human, were said to have been born of a virgin. On December 25, the constellation Virgo (the virgin) is at its peak ascendancy, i.e., the re-birth of the sun occurs under the influence of Virgo. When the constellation Virgo (the virgin) is in its ascendancy, it influences and causes the rise, the birth, of the sun. Certain Sun God celebrations included striking and dramatic scenes of a divine babe (the sun at its weakest or re-born) in a manger and a mother beside it. Communal rituals, such as midnight services on December 24, were celebrated in grottos, cave temples or virgin temples with blazes of candles and clouds of incense. In the morning, after praying all night, the people burst into rejoicing because the virgin "had given birth to the Eternal" (the Divine Child of the Sun). These motifs of the Sun God religions would eventually find their way into the Christian tradition.


    Sorry, I don't have any Bible quotes for you.
  9. Halifax, NS
    Joined
    08 Jan '05
    Moves
    2652
    13 Dec '05 05:051 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Does it state or entail that she was a virgin at the time of conception?
    I assume by "it" you mean Luke's account. And I would say NO.

    It states that she claimed to be a virgin when the angel made the announcement, at which point she was not yet pregnant. "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" And within the next 3 months she was pregnant with Jesus.

    [Of course, I am simply answering your questions. I have absolutely no doubt that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born, let alone conceived (though abstaining from sex throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39559
    13 Dec '05 05:11
    Originally posted by joelek
    I assume by "it" you mean Luke's account. And I would say NO.

    It states that she claimed to be a virgin when the angel made the announcement, at which point she was not yet pregnant. "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" And within the next 3 months she was pregnant with Jesus.

    [Of course, I am simply answer ...[text shortened]... ed (though being a virgin throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]
    Joelek: (though being a virgin throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]

    WTF? How old are you? You think pregnant women don't have sex?😲
  11. Territories Unknown
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    13 Dec '05 05:11
    Originally posted by David C
    "Mary" is an anthropomorphization of the constellation Virgo.

    http://www.indigosun.com/Dec2000/winter_solstice.htm

    Thus evolved the ancient religions of the Sun Gods. These "Sun" religions abound with legends of a Solar Man Ancient religious traditions teem with stories about the Hindu Sun God Krishna, the Egyptian Horus, the Greek Helios ...[text shortened]... way into the Christian tradition.


    Sorry, I don't have any Bible quotes for you.
    Almost makes one think the stars have something to do with the overall presentation of the story, huh?
  12. Territories Unknown
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    13 Dec '05 05:12
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I heard it claimed that Luke is the only Gospel that describes a virgin birth. None of the others state that Mary is a virgin. Is this the case?

    Further, the source from which I heard this explained it by observing that Luke was Greek, and came from a culture in which virgin births were a mythological staple.

    Comment.
    Let's not forget Genesis.
  13. Halifax, NS
    Joined
    08 Jan '05
    Moves
    2652
    13 Dec '05 05:13
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Joelek: (though being a virgin throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]

    WTF? How old are you? You think pregnant women don't have sex?😲
    Well, I've got a 14 month old and a 2 1/2 year old, so I have a pretty good idea. I was referring to the above post, quoting Matthew, where it states Joseph and Mary did not have sex throughout the pregnancy.

    I was just pointing out that being a virgin at conception, not at birth, is the miracle (even though she was a virgin at birth).
  14. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    13 Dec '05 05:14
    Originally posted by joelek
    I assume by "it" you mean Luke's account. And I would say NO.

    It states that she claimed to be a virgin when the angel made the announcement, at which point she was not yet pregnant. "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" And within the next 3 months she was pregnant with Jesus.

    [Of course, I am simply answer ...[text shortened]... hough abstaining from sex throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]
    Actually, Matthew 1:25 of the NLV says "she remained a virgin until her son was born."

    This is logically different than the version you gave, which states, "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son."

    I could construct various scenarios in which one holds but not the other.

    I imagine my source was referring to the original Greek text regarding Luke's unique account of virgin birth. Can anybody comment on that?
  15. Halifax, NS
    Joined
    08 Jan '05
    Moves
    2652
    13 Dec '05 05:16
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Actually, Matthew 1:25 of the NLV says "she remained a virgin until her son was born."

    This is logically different than the version you gave, which states, "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son."

    I could construct various scenarios in which one holds but not the other.

    I imagine my source was referring to the original Greek text regarding Luke's unique account of virgin birth. Can anybody comment on that?
    Be careful. The NLV is a paraphrase, not a translation. It's just trying to tell you what the paraphrasers think the author meant. It's not trying to necessarily translate literally.

    So you're really reading what the NLV paraphrasers think Matthew meant when he said Joseph didn't have any union with Mary.
Back to Top