08 May 07
Originally posted by FleabittenYes but did the angels and whatever other buddies it made come before the creation of our universe?
I cannot answer all of your questions. But according to the Bible:
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
Regardless of the Biblical edition, the creation of heaven and earth predates all else, I believe.
08 May 07
Originally posted by sonhouseThere was nothing but God so how could he be lonely? Loneliness is a relative feeling and God had nothing to relate to. That was his motivation for making the Universe, to make a medium in which he could experience relativeness and come to experience himself. He did this by chopping himself up into things like creatures and plants, which experience each other through 'relationships'. That's what the 'God made man in his own image' business is about: man isn't physically like God, but we are made of the same 'stuff'.
Assuming this god existed before anything else, what was its motivation to make the universe? What evidence to you have for your assertions? Did this god create the universe, ie, the 'heavens' before it created satan and the angels?
By the way I don't have any evidence for this - just a book I read once 😉.
08 May 07
Originally posted by sonhousemaybe he was bored and needed something to do
Assuming this god existed before anything else, what was its motivation to make the universe? What evidence to you have for your assertions? Did this god create the universe, ie, the 'heavens' before it created satan and the angels?
08 May 07
Originally posted by sonhouseAccording to Revelation 4:11 all things were created for His will:
Assuming this god existed before anything else, what was its motivation to make the universe? What evidence to you have for your assertions? Did this god create the universe, ie, the 'heavens' before it created satan and the angels?
" ... for You have created all things, and because of Your will they were and have been created" (Rev. 4:11)
Some Christians deduce from this that first God had a plan, a will, a heart's desire. And based upon this will and plan He created all things.
Ephesians pin points the matter further that "His will" is to have sons who share His life and nature:
"According as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blemish before Him, in love, having predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will ..." (Eph. 1:4,5)
The fact that God chose some before the foundation of the world strongly implies that before God created the universe He had within His heart a good pleasure to have sons of God sharing His holy nature and divine life. Based upon this desire He then laid the foundation of the world - He then created the universe.
Therefore the universe exists for God's will to have sons. Without this will and purpose the universe has no meaning. That I feel is the strong implication of verses like Ephesians 1:4,5 and Rev. 4:11.
09 May 07
Originally posted by jaywillI have to take exception to your statement: Without this (gods) will
According to Revelation 4:11 all things were created for His will:
[b]" ... for You have created all things, and because of Your will they were and have been created" (Rev. 4:11)
Some Christians deduce from this that first God had a plan, a will, a heart's desire. And based upon this will and plan He created all things.
Ephesians pin points th ...[text shortened]... ing. That I feel is the strong implication of verses like Ephesians 1:4,5 and Rev. 4:11.[/b]
and purpose the universe has no meaning.
If there is no god, WE give the universe meaning, we can make the meaning anything we want.
09 May 07
Originally posted by sonhouseYou are going outside the bounds of your own thread. You're question assumes the existence of God. Therefore you are simply negating your own question with this particular post.
I have to take exception to your statement: Without this (gods) will
and purpose the universe has no meaning.
If there is no god, WE give the universe meaning, we can make the meaning anything we want.
You asked why. He answer why according to his opinion and world view. If you provide a platform for people to discuss from, don't pull it out from under the people you disagree with.
Bad Form.
09 May 07
Originally posted by Big MacOk, fair enough.
You are going outside the bounds of your own thread. You're question assumes the existence of God. Therefore you are simply negating your own question with this particular post.
You asked why. He answer why according to his opinion and world view. If you provide a platform for people to discuss from, don't pull it out from under the people you disagree with.
Bad Form.
09 May 07
Originally posted by sonhouseThe question was was the Christian God lonely.
Ok, fair enough.
Probably so. The Bible ends with a marriage of God to His people symbolically and collectively discribed as the Bride and Wife. The surroundings of this marriage very much mirror the bringing of Adam's wife to Adam in which God said that it was not good for the man to be alone.
The reflexive nature of the marriage in Revelation 21 and 22 with the marriage of Genesis 2 imply that not only it was not good for man to be alone, but it was also not good for God to be alone.
It may be hard for us to understand the all-sufficient yet lonely God. But it appears that that is what God is trying to communicate to man, that He desires a counterpart, a romantic other in some sense as far as we can comprehend.
This counter part is His Wife from one perspective and His family of sons from another perspective. It is His dwelling place within whom His Spirit will abide and live from one angle. And from another angle it His continuation, expansion, encrease, and multiplication.
In a nutshell we could say that God desired strongly more of Himself in another form, to fill His creation, represent Him, reign for Him, glorfy Him, and live and love Him.
09 May 07
4 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseI would be willing to humor your suggestion that man could collectively assign meaning to the universe.
Ok, fair enough.
I think any meaning that man could build as a consenses on to assign to the universe would end up looking something like the will of God. However it would come woefully short.
You would end up with a tragic imitation, a caricature (spelling?) . It wouild be far better just to receive and accept the meaning that God has ordained for creation. We could not possibly improve upon it.
In other words it is impossible for man as a collective entity to improve upon the will of God for the universe. Our ultimate happiness is bound up in the will of God.
It is like we could also not imagine a Person better than Jesus Christ.
10 May 07
Originally posted by sonhouseNot quite. Even if there is a God, we still bring meaning to our own lives. We decide what to value and what to pursue. We impose a narrative structure on our own lives. That some gaseous vertebrate has hidden plans for us is entirely irrelevant to the actual meaning of our lives.
If there is no god, WE give the universe meaning, we can make the meaning anything we want.
10 May 07
Originally posted by jaywillWhat you actually mean is that you could not imagine a better person than Jesus and that you could not improve upon the universe.
I would be willing to humor your suggestion that man could collectively assign meaning to the universe.
I think any meaning that man could build as a consenses on to assign to the universe would end up looking something like the will of God. However it would come woefully short.
You would end up with a tragic imitation, a caricature (spelling?) . ...[text shortened]... n the will of God.
It is like we could also not imagine a Person better than Jesus Christ.
Your assertions about anyone else are completely false.
10 May 07
2 edits
Originally posted by amannionQuite the contrary I mean that YOU amannion (included with me) could not imagine a person better than Jesus Christ.
What you actually mean is that [b]you could not imagine a better person than Jesus and that you could not improve upon the universe.
Your assertions about anyone else are completely false.[/b]
That's my opinion. But if you think you'd like to try go ahead.