@ghost-of-a-duke saidAkira!
That sounds about right. (Though would be inclined to replace 'created' with originated).
I fear the word 'created.' 😲
@caesar-salad saidThe 1988 Japanese animated post-apocalyptic cyberpunk film directed by Katsuhiro Otomo?!
Akira!
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSorry, I meant the one about the little wrapped hand soaps on the Picard-era Enterprise, directed by Takashi Miike, circa 2053.
The 1988 Japanese animated post-apocalyptic cyberpunk film directed by Katsuhiro Otomo?!
@caesar-salad saidYou're an odd little fellow.
Sorry, I meant the one about the little wrapped hand soaps on the Picard-era Enterprise, directed by Takashi Miike, circa 2053.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidBefore there was "something" there was God. God created "something" when there wasn't any thing there.
It is my belief that matter has always existed, in one form or another. (Though not necessarily in a knobbly state).
There has never been 'nothing.'
When there wasn't anything there, God created something there. Even the thing we call space God created, and filled it with matter, energy and life.
It's too easy.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidOriginated - originate - origin.
That sounds about right. (Though would be inclined to replace 'created' with originated).
I fear the word 'created.' 😲
Everything has an origin. Or else it wouldn't exist. That includes matter/energy.
"Nothing" is what we call it before anything was. There's no other way to comprehend "nothing" in that context.
Therefore, in order for everything to exist, where there wasn't anything existing, it had to be created.
Have no fear!
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@secondson saidYour third paragraph makes no definitive sense, one may equally ask where did your god come from. You will say that your god has always existed, but it equally well may be true that matter and energy has always existed, it makes just as much sense, since either way it's beyond our knowledge and understanding. What it comes down to, as always in such discussions, is belief, which is not logical but emotional. And of course 'one' has not always existed as 'one', the stuff of which one is made may or may not have always existed, but that's different.
Knobbly bits? That's hysterical! Besides, I didn't feel it that closely.
I find nothing in the 8.7 million species on earth that suggests any of them evolved from nothing. Everything was created from nothing because from nothing is the only logical explanation for how everything exists.
If from matter/energy evolved life, then where did matter/energy come from? For one to say matter/energy has always existed requires, logically, that one has always existed.
As regards evolution, Suzianne has suggested that you read 'Origin of Species', if you have not already done so. Since Mr Darwin wrote his then definitive work, our knowledge of carbon - dating and DNA has led scientists to be able to age rocks with some accuracy, and therefore the fossils within them. We can therefore say with confidence that the earth is about 4,500 million years old, the first single - celled organisms (the first 'life' ) can be dated back to about 4,000 million years ago. After a few more million years the cells became more complex, and since then there has been a steady and observable increase in the complexity of living things, and the introduction by said living things of oxygen into earths' atmosphere, about 3,500 million years ago. After that anything is possible in evolutionary terms. We know from the fossil record that the 'Cambrian Explosion' occurred some 500 million years ago, when the variety of species increased exponentially. Since then we can chart several mass extinctions, several ice ages, and so on, and we can say with certainty that at least 99% of species which have existed are now extinct. 65 million years ago a meteorite struck earth and did for the last dinosaurs, and then came the age of mammals, from whence eventually the first apes. Modern humans (us) appeared on the scene 50 thousand years ago, in Africa (so if you imagine your god, imagine an African), from whence we have colonized the earth, and evolved different skin pigmentation to suit our environment. DNA analysis can prove conclusively that all living things are related and come from a common source, or common ancestor (the single - celled organisms).
Now, anyone can of course ignore or deny all of this science and say that 'god dun it', but such ignorance and denial has no place in intelligent, modern day discussion. (When the bible was written they didn't have any of this information or understanding).
So, believe away, but don't present your belief as 'logic', 'cause that it ain't.
@secondson said'Too' easy perhaps?
Before there was "something" there was God. God created "something" when there wasn't any thing there.
When there wasn't anything there, God created something there. Even the thing we call space God created, and filled it with matter, energy and life.
It's too easy.
I appreciate that all humans, due to our shared finality, want to put a tick in the box against all the really profound questions like, 'where did it all begin?' 'how did we get here?'
God (s) exist to answer those questions. It is 'less' easy to accept we don't have all the answers.
@secondson saidAgain, I do not accept there was ever a time when there was 'nothing.' (And before you rush to reject the idea of an 'infinite' universe, remember that is a quality you attribute to God).
Originated - originate - origin.
Everything has an origin. Or else it wouldn't exist. That includes matter/energy.
"Nothing" is what we call it before anything was. There's no other way to comprehend "nothing" in that context.
Therefore, in order for everything to exist, where there wasn't anything existing, it had to be created.
Have no fear!
Time itself is a human concept.
@Indonesia-Phil said
'the stuff of which one is made may or may not have always existed'
Of all the interesting things that you have just written the above quote was the one that most got my mind working. It takes me into my pet area of what the stuff is that we are actually made of.
The better we become at understanding functional neuroanatomy the more it becomes apparent that every brain structure that we can identify is subservient to consciousness or in relationship to consciousness but none of it turns out to house consciousness. There is apparently no anatomical seat of consciousness.
So where are we? Are we the patterns of information, the software more than the hardware if you will? Are we more the thing that happens through dynamic interaction of the software? Presumably the information is still there in the deceased brain but the dynamic interaction has gone. Our bodies have evolved into a thing that can house consciousness, but when in the evolutionary process did consciousness arrive and where did it come from. Science suggests as a universal principle that you can't get something from nothing.
If our consciousness were detached from our memories housed in brain and body it would no longer seem to be us, but it isn't gone it is still the same consciousness. The person with dementia is still the same person. So when does consciousness arrive and is it a physical thing?
@indonesia-phil saidPost here more often Phil.
Your third paragraph makes no definitive sense, one may equally ask where did your god come from. You will say that your god has always existed, but it equally well may be true that matter and energy has always existed, it makes just as much sense, since either way it's beyond our knowledge and understanding. What it comes down to, as always in such discussions, is bel ...[text shortened]... nderstanding).
So, believe away, but don't present your belief as 'logic', 'cause that it ain't.
😀
-Removed-Absolutely. The problem is defining the moment at which it took it's destiny into it's own hands. Is that a moment of creation from the point of view of consciousness. Is that a something from nothing moment? The matter was already there but what about this consciousness that we can never locate housed in the matter? Did it have a creation moment?
@secondson said"Let there be light" aka the Big Bang.
Before there was "something" there was God. God created "something" when there wasn't any thing there.
When there wasn't anything there, God created something there. Even the thing we call space God created, and filled it with matter, energy and life.
It's too easy.
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@indonesia-phil said"What is time to God?"
Your third paragraph makes no definitive sense, one may equally ask where did your god come from. You will say that your god has always existed, but it equally well may be true that matter and energy has always existed, it makes just as much sense, since either way it's beyond our knowledge and understanding. What it comes down to, as always in such discussions, is bel ...[text shortened]... nderstanding).
So, believe away, but don't present your belief as 'logic', 'cause that it ain't.
P.S. This is how "God dun it".