1. Standard memberDasa
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    26 Mar '16 06:593 edits
    However says we are all created equal is delusional.

    Everyone is not created equal. What then of our attempts to find a platform of mutual respect and harmony? Where does the commonality of living beings lien
    The answer is given by Lord Krishna. He describes two natures at work in this phenomenal world. one is temporary and subject to constant flux and change:

    bhumir apo ’nalo vayun
    kham mano buddhir eva ca
    ahankara itiyam me
    bhinna prakrtir astadha

    “Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego all together these eight constitute my separated material energies.” (Bhagavad-gita 7.4) And the other is permanent and changeless:

    apareyam itas tv anyam
    prakrtim viddhi me param
    jiva-bhutam maha-baho
    yayedam dharyate jagat

    “Besides these, o mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting the resources of this material, inferior nature.” (Bhagavad-gita 7.5)

    We living beings are not temporary manifestations of chance combinations of matter. consciousness is the cause of the material phenomena, not its effect. consciousness is eternal and original and exists even when the material realm is wound up.
    As eternal living beings we are embedded within material nature and struggling within its midst. We acquire a variety of material bodies in an endless cycle of repeated birth and death, entering into and then exiting one cadaver after another.
    The Vedas say that there are 8,400,000 varieties of life, ranging through aquatic life, plants, insects, birds, animals, human beings, and above. the embodied atma, or soul, superficially acquires a certain nature according to the body he currently occupies. Further, even within the same species, every soul is individual and unique. thus none can be said to be equal in every respect, and the pursuit of equality therefore is seemingly futile.
    As Lord Krishna says,
    sadrnam cestate svasyan
    prakrter jnanavan api
    prakrtim yanti bhutani
    nigrahan kim karisyati

    “Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows the nature he has describing these different natures, Lord Krishna also states:

    vidya-vinaya-sampanne
    brahmane gavi hastini
    nuni caiva nva-pake ca
    pannitan sama-darninan

    “The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dogeater [outcaste].” (Bhagavad-gita 5.18)
    On what basis then is this equal vision established? How is an elephant equal to a dog, or a learned man equal to a cown shall we all sit down with the animals to eat and share our beds? An elephant cannot sit down to recite the Vedas, nor can a man eat a hundred pounds of hay a day. A woman can never be identical to a man, an intellectual cannot be forced into manual labor equality cannot be achieved on the external level. everyone must act according to his or her acquired nature.
    The Solution in a Higher Understanding
    The solution to this dilemma lies in understanding the higher nature of the living beings. A true sage sees equally because he looks beyond the body. the first step is knowing that the living being is not the body but the eternal soul within it. the current body of a living being is not his true nature. In a short spell of time it will be abandoned and changed. but the soul himself does not change:

    na jayate mriyate va kadacin
    nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyan
    ajo nityan nanvato ’yam purano
    na hanyate hanyamane narire

    “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (Bhagavad-gita 2.20)

    The vision of the sage is spiritual. He sees the oneness of all living beings in their common eternal spiritual nature while simultaneously recognizing their varied temporally acquired natures.
    All souls are eternally parts of the supreme soul, Lord Krishna, who claims all living beings to be His offspring:

    sarva-yonisu kaunteya
    murtayan sambhavanti yan
    tasam brahma mahad yonir
    aham bija-pradan pita

    “It should be understood that all species of life, o son of Kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seedgiving father.” (Bhagavad-gita 14.4)
    The frustrations of life are experienced due to forgetfulness of our common eternal connection with the supreme person, Sri Krishna. When the parts of the tree the leaves and branches become separated from the root, they dry up. similarly when the soul forgets his eternal relationship with the supreme, he comes to this world of matter and tries to be happy separately from his source. His search for happiness results in a great struggle for existence, each soul trying to lord over the others in a futile bid to be controllers and enjoyers:

    mamaivamno jiva-loke
    jiva-bhutan sanatanan
    manan-sasthanindriyani
    prakrti-sthani karsati

    “The living entities in this conditioned world are my eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.” (Bhagavad-gita 15.7)
    Sri caitanya mahaprabhu taught that each soul is meant for service to the supreme and that the true identity of each individual is as an eternal servant of God:
    Jivera ‘svarupa’ haya krsnera ‘nitya-dasa’
    “The living entity is an eternal servant of Krishna, the supreme God.” (Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 20.108)

    True happiness must be eternal. It is found in harmonious coexistence in common service to the supreme Lord. Krishna accepts the service of every one of us, regardless of our different natures. He looks only to see the bhakti, or love with which we serve Him, regardless of whether we are man or woman, rich or poor, clever or simple, merchant or intellectual, black or white, Hindu, muslim, Jew, or christian, Indian, American, british, adult or child. Anyone can take part in the sublime process of bhakti-yoga linking with the Lord through loving devotion.

    Therefore Lord Caitanya, who is understood to be the same supreme Lord Krishna come again as His own devotee, established His sublime doctrine of acintya bheda- and abheda-tattva simultaneous oneness and difference. Anyone, from whatever diverse material situation one has acquired, can approach the Lord with love and affection and be accepted by Him into His eternal lila of prema, His pastimes of pure love.
    The Lord promulgated an easy and effective method for achieving this. simply by the process of glorifying the supreme by chanting His holy names Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare rama, Hare rama, rama rama, Hare Hare, or any bona fide name of God anyone can attain the highest state of ecstatic love and live in harmony with all living beings, seeing them as brothers and sisters under our common father, Lord Sri Krishna.

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating” is a famous saying. In the modern age my Guru maharaja, His Divine Grace Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, as the humble servant of the great acarya Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja Prabhupada, has carried this universal doctrine to every corner of the globe, transcending all barriers of race, caste, creed, and social diversity to create an international movement of universal love and peace. because of his ability to see every living being spiritually, he knew the true potential of millions of bewildered souls. He has demonstrated the power of the true sage and has enjoined all of us to share that vision and thus make our lives perfect.

    If the present leaders of society want true equality and its consequent product of common happiness and respect among all living beings, they can do no better than to seek the advice of the true sages whose equal vision can factually unite all living beings in common purpose.
    We are very glad to have the opportunity to share our thoughts and realizations with our brothers and sisters from the Gaudiya mission, and we look forward to a future of cooperation and mutual endeavor for the glory of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga and the benefit of the world.

    Hari Sauri Dasa, who served as Srila Prabhupada’s personal secretary, lives at ISKCON Mayapur and is the director of the Bhaktivedanta Research Centre.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    26 Mar '16 10:42
    Originally posted by Dasa
    However says we are all created equal is delusional.

    Everyone is not created equal. What then of our attempts to find a platform of mutual respect and harmony? Where does the commonality of living beings lien
    The answer is given by Lord Krishna. He describes two natures at work in this phenomenal world. one is temporary and subject to constant flux and chan ...[text shortened]... nal secretary, lives at ISKCON Mayapur and is the director of the Bhaktivedanta Research Centre.
    Boof-head !
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Mar '16 12:16
    Originally posted by Dasa
    However says we are all created equal is delusional.

    Everyone is not created equal. What then of our attempts to find a platform of mutual respect and harmony?
    The notion that 'we are all created equal' is a social and political construct. As a legal and political foundation for a society organizing itself and its interactions, I believe it is the best way to go. If your religionist ideology has you believing that people should not be equal before the law and not equal in terms of their (other) human rights, then that's fine by me, as long as any discrimination or prejudice you support or advocate is not given the force of law and as long as you yourself comply with the law as it pertains to such equality of citizens.
  4. Standard memberDasa
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    26 Mar '16 17:51
    Originally posted by FMF
    The notion that 'we are all created equal' is a social and political construct. As a legal and political foundation for a society organizing itself and its interactions, I believe it is the best way to go. If your religionist ideology has you believing that people should not be equal before the law and not equal in terms of their (other) human rights, then that' ...[text shortened]... law and as long as you yourself comply with the law as it pertains to such equality of citizens.
    Stop the waffling nonsense, please.

    You are sliding into the realm of trolling with your ( oh! so politicaly correct) comments.

    You are quite aware of what the OP is saying and means.

    It's telling everyone the only TRUE equality is spiritual equality.

    That doesn't mean there is a group of persons who have the same karma and seem all very equal in our material eyes. (it happens all the time)

    Take junk science for instance.......................They say the baboon and man appear to be the same in many respects and then conclude my Grandfather is a baboon.

    Do you see what delusion people can do.
  5. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    26 Mar '16 19:00
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Stop the waffling nonsense, please.

    You are sliding into the realm of trolling with your ( oh! so politicaly correct) comments.

    You are quite aware of what the OP is saying and means.

    It's telling everyone the only TRUE equality is spiritual equality.

    That doesn't mean there is a group of persons who have the same karma and seem all very equal in ou ...[text shortened]... espects and then conclude my Grandfather is a baboon.

    Do you see what delusion people can do.
    A few of us might be guilty of trolling the troll. (You get that you're the troll right?).

    Some of your highlights:

    1. Not played a chess move in years. (The primary point of this site) despite chess apparently appearing in the Vedas.
    2. Create multiple threads of hate, clearly created to 'troll' a reaction.
    3. Never post anything friendly on the site.
    4. Advocate genocide and demonize an entire people/religion.
    5. Accuse everyone repeatedly of being dishonest and pig ignorant (while claiming never to have posted anything hateful).
    6. Frequently bring shame to your chosen religion with your revolting language.

    If your religion and arrogance allows self reflection, i encourage you to give it a try.

    Boofhead troll.
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    26 Mar '16 21:39
    Not just Dasa but others on here seem to think putting TRUE in front of something gives
    it special meaning without the need for any other justification. TRUE ignorance. 🙂
  7. Standard membersonship
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    26 Mar '16 21:411 edit
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    A few of us might be guilty of trolling the troll. (You get that you're the troll right?).

    Some of your highlights:

    1. Not played a chess move in years. (The primary point of this site) despite chess apparently appearing in the Vedas.
    2. Create multiple threads of hate, clearly created to 'troll' a reaction.
    3. Never post anything friendly on ...[text shortened]... igion and arrogance allows self reflection, i encourage you to give it a try.

    Boofhead troll.
    When people comment on the Spirituality Forum it is not at all necessary to draw attention to how much chess they have or have not played.

    If there exists some rule on how many chess moves one has to make in correlation to how much they participate in discussion forums, please refer me to it.
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    26 Mar '16 21:57
    Originally posted by sonship
    When people comment on the Spirituality Forum it is not at all necessary to draw attention to how much chess they have or have not played.

    If there exists some rule on how many chess moves one has to make in correlation to how much they participate in discussion forums, please refer me to it.
    Yes i know, and ordinarily i'd agree with you. The point however was to address Dasa accusing everyone who disagreed with him as being a troll.

    A person who comes to a chess site, plays no chess, but exclusively posts vitriol in the public forums is far better suited to this label. You do understand that?! It's the combination of not using a site for its primary purpose but only as a platform for his hatred that puts him firmly in the troll camp. (And on this site i think it is a camp he sits in by himself, quietly plotting his next deranged provocation).
  9. Standard membersonship
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    26 Mar '16 22:41
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Yes i know, and ordinarily i'd agree with you. The point however was to address Dasa accusing everyone who disagreed with him as being a troll.

    A person who comes to a chess site, plays no chess, but exclusively posts vitriol in the public forums is far better suited to this label. You do understand that?! It's the combination of not using a sit ...[text shortened]... ite i think it is a camp he sits in by himself, quietly plotting his next deranged provocation).
    Yes, I understand you.
  10. Standard memberDasa
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    26 Mar '16 22:46
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    A few of us might be guilty of trolling the troll. (You get that you're the troll right?).

    Some of your highlights

    1. Not played a chess move in years. (The primary point of this site) despite chess apparently appearing in the Vedas.
    2. Create multiple threads of hate, clearly created to 'troll' a reaction.
    3. Never post anything friendly on ...[text shortened]... on and arrogance allows self-reflection i encourage you to give it a try.ion)

    Boofhead troll.
    1. Chess is a great game, but I have grown tired of chess.

    2. I have never used the word hate (that's your word of choice)

    3. Almost every response to my threads is from foolhardy sarcastic buffoons like yourself, which makes it very hard to say something wonderful. But I do respond describing the behavior of the person so they can reflect on that behavior. If they say something idiotic and useless which is full of sarcasm...............I tell them they are a sarcastic idiot. (stupid is as stupid does and say and speak)

    4.Never done it (you lie)

    5. Almost everyone in this forum is pig ignorant about religion. ( not one person knows the difference between true religion and false religion and has no care to know as well (like yourself included)

    6.The shame you speak is your imagined shame (not mine little sparrow)

    7. You need to reflect on why you come to this forum a vomit in it daily, with your junk science arrogance and ignorance and spite for all things good and spiritual wholesome. (terrorist lover)
  11. Standard membersonship
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    26 Mar '16 22:51
    Does the Cast System influence you to believe people are not created equal ?
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    26 Mar '16 22:55
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Yes i know, and ordinarily i'd agree with you. The point however was to address Dasa accusing everyone who disagreed with him as being a troll.

    A person who comes to a chess site, plays no chess, but exclusively posts vitriol in the public forums is far better suited to this label. You do understand that?! It's the combination of not using a sit ...[text shortened]... ite i think it is a camp he sits in by himself, quietly plotting his next deranged provocation).
    This is the spirituality forum, and I always discuss religion and spirituality.

    It is you who does not discuss spirituality but instead vomit your nonsense here daily about how much you reject Vedic authority.

    Rejecting Vedic authority is like rejecting the Oxford Dictionary or the complete works of William Shakespear, you moron.

    When will the madness end.
  13. Standard memberDasa
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    26 Mar '16 22:57
    Originally posted by sonship
    Does the Cast System influence you to believe people are not created equal ?
    The cast system is a modern creation of materialistic Indian culture, and has nothing to do with the Vedas.

    You would not this if you knew what true religion was. (ignoramus troll)
  14. Standard membersonship
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    26 Mar '16 23:05
    Originally posted by Dasa
    The cast system is a modern creation of materialistic Indian culture, and has nothing to do with the Vedas.

    You would not this if you knew what true religion was. (ignoramus troll)
    I am not an "ignoramous troll." I simply asked you an honest question.

    I will forgive you for the hot tempered insult. But ask you, since you know so much about it. How OLD is the cast system then ?

    Does it go back in India to very ancient times ?
  15. Standard memberDasa
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    26 Mar '16 23:57
    Originally posted by sonship
    I am not an "ignoramous troll." I simply asked you an honest question.

    I will forgive you for the hot tempered insult. But ask you, since you know so much about it. How OLD is the cast system then ?

    Does it go back in India to very ancient times ?
    I shall show you your nonsense.

    You are so interested in the caste system.........................but have zero interest in knowing anything about finding out, What is true religion and how can I distinguish it from false religion.

    You don't know and don't care.

    Instead.......Your question about case systems is a baiting and digging insincere question because I have already mentioned that the caste system is not a Vedic proposition.

    And that is your nonsense little sparrow.
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