1. Joined
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    21 Jul '11 16:28
    Welcome to the universe.

    No, you did not ASK to be here. Neither did I.
    None of us existed to be able to request that we exist. But we are here.
    The universe is a great place. But you'll find that it does have its problems to.

    But one thing you should be cognizant. This existance does have its Governor. There is Authroity over this creation. And He is righteous. No I don't me He is pretty good. I mean He is perfection, ultimate Right.

    Had we all been able to assemble before we existed, and voted on what kind of Governor we would have reigning over this universe, maybe we would have had the majority vote for Someone not perfect, not total righteousness, and not holy.

    But though the Authority over the creation is RIGHTEOUSNESS in its ultimate sense. There is good news. He also is LOVE. I mean His love is really really strong. I mean His love is so strong that He desires your company for ETERNITY. That is from now on. That is forever. His love extends out into an endless eternity.

    One other thing is good to know. This God coordinates His great love and His great righteousness at the same time. It is not easy for Him. But He has a way to be absolute riighteousness while also exercising His great love. And He has a way to excercise His great love without violating His great righteousness.

    If you want to see God coordinate these two ultimate attributes together at the same time, you should study the life of one Jesus Christ. Especially you should examine His death on the cross.

    There on the cross of Jesus, God executed His infinite righteousness at the same time as He flowed out His infinite love. There He drew a blank check for every human being who has ever lived. He drew a blank check in His love and paid enough to cover for the sins of the whole world - One atoning work of redemption for the entire human race for all eternity.

    This was His great love at work without violating His eternal righteousness.
    This was His absolute righteouss requirement activated but with His great love behind it.

    We did not invent this God. Neither did we vote that He should be this way.
    He just is this way. And He calls all men to believe in Christ the Lord and Savior - the God become flesh - the God become a man.

    " For God SO LOVED the world that He gave His onely begotten Son, that every one who believes into Him would not perish, but have eternal life.

    For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be sabved through Him."



    These two sentences came out of the mouth of Jesus Christ. They are perhaps some of the most known words spoken on earth. None of us had the wisdom to utter them or to imagine them. These words came from the lips of that Son of God Who died and rose from the dead.

    One act to redeem all sinners unto eternal life.
  2. Standard memberSoothfast
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    21 Jul '11 16:31
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Welcome to the universe.

    No, you did not ASK to be here. Neither did I.
    None of us existed to be able to request that we exist. But we are here.
    The universe is a great place. But you'll find that it does have its problems to.

    But one thing you should be cognizant. This existance does have its Governor. There is Authroity over this creation. A ...[text shortened]... God Who died and rose from the dead.

    One act to redeem all sinners unto eternal life.
    This whole tract has the flavor of a Dixieland tent revival.
  3. Joined
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    21 Jul '11 18:05
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    This whole tract has the flavor of a Dixieland tent revival.
    Point out two or more consecutive words and explain why they are particularly "Dixieland".

    Can truth be spoken below the Mason-Dixon line ?
    Besides I thought you'd like it because it has a little "Monte Python" flavor to it.
  4. England
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    21 Jul '11 18:29
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Point out two or more consecutive words and explain [b]why they are particularly "Dixieland".

    Can truth be spoken below the Mason-Dixon line ?
    Besides I thought you'd like it because it has a little "Monte Python" flavor to it.[/b]
    yes the speelen mistooks in it made me right at home
  5. Joined
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    21 Jul '11 18:35
    We know, if we believe the Bible, that at least the direction of history is towards a universe free from tears, death, sorrow.

    Why I arrived and did not find it that way may be an arguable problem. It is hard for me to explain why we did not arrive and find it that way.

    However, as a believer in God's demonstrated ability to foretell what is to be (He did it before), I have assurance that He is MOVING the creation in that direction of a eternal paradise.

    Right here:

    "And when this corruptible will put on incorruption and this mortal will put on immortality, then the world which is written will come to pass, 'Death has been swallowed up unto victory.'

    Where, O death is your victory? Where, O death , is your sting?" (1 Cor. 15:54,55)


    And here again:

    "And I head a loud voice out of the throne, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His peoples, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.

    And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more; nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away.

    And He who sits on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said, Write, for these words are faithful and true. and He said to me. They have come to pass.

    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts from the spring of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit thee things, and I will be God to him, ad he will be a son to Me." (Rev. 21:3-7)


    History is flowing in this direction to this climax. Had it not been for the fulfilled promises made centries prior to the coming of Christ, maybe we would not have so much ground for confidence.

    But the divine track record instills the believer with confidence. We came to the universe with a problem present. But we are moving in His will toward this universe.

    " ... according to His promise we are expecting ner heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells." ( 2 Pet. 3:11)


    The neutral man is no longer in between God and Satan. The saved have become sons of God with His life and nature wrought into their beings.

    For the rebels their will not be paradise of God as life but judgment.

    "But the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and fornicators and sorcerers and idolaters and all the flase, their part will be in the lak which burns with fire and brimestone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8)

    Notice that "the cowardly" is mentioned before the "unbelieving" .

    I think "the cowardly" must be those who know in their hearts that Christ is the Lord the Son of God, but are afraid to receive Him as Lord.

    Then after the "cowardly" there are the "unbelieving" who simply reject to believe that Christ is the Lord, the Son of God.
  6. Joined
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    21 Jul '11 18:46
    "No, you did not ASK to be here. Neither did I."

    I assume the notion that we did exist prior to our earthly birth, and did in fact ask to be here, and had the memory of all that erased, is unbiblical and therefore, in the mind of a Christian, false and/or irrelevant. However, it is a good rebuttal to a whiny teenager.
  7. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    21 Jul '11 18:55
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Welcome to the universe.

    No, you did not ASK to be here. Neither did I.
    None of us existed to be able to request that we exist. But we are here.
    The universe is a great place. But you'll find that it does have its problems to.

    But one thing you should be cognizant. This existance does have its Governor. There is Authroity over this creation. A ...[text shortened]... God Who died and rose from the dead.

    One act to redeem all sinners unto eternal life.
    Your theology is conveniently formulated to justify specific preferred views of the world the way your religion perceives them, and you appear to justify your ontology through verses from the Bible forcing us to accept them as if they were systematic theories of proof; however, you really have no honest way of knowing whether they in fact should lend credence to your beliefs other than the fact that they derive (according to your religious beliefs) from the scribes of the Bible, insisting that they are “the word of G-d” (over here, your preaching is identical to vishva/Dasa's and RJHinds'πŸ˜‰. Well, they are not. They are written by human beings. The Christian teachings have history too, they too evolved over time. It's all about meta-concepts (as is the case with all the religions around the dial), based on previous archetypes that evolved in specific societies during a specific spacetime.
    No Religion😡

    All things, and of course our universe, are arbitrarily caused and all causes are arbitrarily caused, so there is no way to trace the origin of things seeking in despair, amongst else, the infamous T=0. We cannot reach it. Yet. And it is absurd to attribute fundamental nature to anything, as you attempt to do with the human invention known as G-d, because all things are merely a form which arises from the contingent connection of contingent causes or causes of causes. Every phenomenon is a phenomenon-in-flux. Otherwise, if the things and the phenomena were the way they appear to be (if they were, that is, indeed inherently existent separated entities), they would be changeless and stable. But no object, no entity, no osberver (the observer universe included) and no phenomenon that is changeless and stable is existent; eternity is an illusion.

    Thus I have heard: the universe does not have a beginning; it does not fail to have a beginning; it does not “have and not have” a beginning; nor does it neither “have nor not have” a beginning. Therefore, since no thesis is not asserted by me whilst the thesis asserted by you is not tenable, the flaw is not mine.

    Finally,
    if there is a hereafter and there is a fruit, a result of good and evil deeds, it is possible that after death I will arise in bliss;
    if there is no hereafter and no fruit, I will herenow free myself from hatred and from malice, I will keep myself safe, sound and happy;
    if evil results indeed befall an evil doer, they will not affect me because I am not an evil doer;
    and if evil results do not befall an evil doer, I am purified anyway;
    May All Beings Be Happy!
    😡


    All the above are neither some kind of a divine revelation, nor the Absolute Truth nor "words of G-d". They are merely pointers and they should be discarded once they are realised;
    Vast Emptiness, Nothing Holy
    😡
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    21 Jul '11 20:00
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Your theology is conveniently formulated to justify specific preferred views of the world the way your religion perceives them, and you appear to justify your ontology through verses from the Bible forcing us to accept them as if they were systematic theories of proof; however, you really have no honest way of knowing whether they in fact should lend cr ...[text shortened]... ters and they should be discarded once they are realised;
    Vast Emptiness, Nothing Holy
    😡
    All the above are neither some kind of a divine revelation, nor the Absolute Truth nor "words of G-d". They are merely pointers and they should be discarded once they are realised; Vast Emptiness, Nothing Holy

    No kidding. I would also add that they are merely the ravings of another prideful Man. More circular reasoning designed to lift the yoke of blame from your shoulders. I hear similar tripe every day I live on this planet. I, however, choose to obey the word of God, not the words of prideful, sinful Man.
  9. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    21 Jul '11 21:26
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    [b]All the above are neither some kind of a divine revelation, nor the Absolute Truth nor "words of G-d". They are merely pointers and they should be discarded once they are realised; Vast Emptiness, Nothing Holy

    No kidding. I would also add that they are merely the ravings of another prideful Man. More circular reasoning designed to lift the yoke ...[text shortened]... et. I, however, choose to obey the word of God, not the words of prideful, sinful Man.[/b]
    Am I prideful because I respect your personal evaluation of the mind just as much as I respect mine?
    Or prideful am I considered just because my evaluation is different than yours?
    Or, maybe, you think I am prideful because, although I would fight hard for your right to express yourself the way you please, I evaluate your religion as an untenable irrational religious meta-concept?
    Or am I prideful because whenever I see a sentient being I am fully aware of the fact that I am seeing myself?
    Or is it a fruit of my pride the fact that I always keep myself fully responsible for my thoughts and for my actions?
    Or am I prideful because I heartily wish Happiness to every sentient being?
    Or am I prideful because your religion and common sense are in my opinion an awful pair?
    Or am I prideful because I am not preaching the so called Absolute Truth but I am simply expressing my fully falsifiable opinion?
    Or am I prideful because you are a Christian whilst an atheist I remain?

    Namaste, Lady Suzianne
    😡
  10. Standard memberSoothfast
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    21 Jul '11 21:35
    Originally posted by jaywill
    We know, if we believe the Bible, that at least the direction of history is towards a universe free from tears, death, sorrow.
    That is true in a sense. The universe is asymptotically approaching a thermodynamic state known as "heat death" in which entropy is maximized and there is no useful energy left for tears and sorrow.
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
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    21 Jul '11 21:52
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    [b]All the above are neither some kind of a divine revelation, nor the Absolute Truth nor "words of G-d". They are merely pointers and they should be discarded once they are realised; Vast Emptiness, Nothing Holy

    No kidding. I would also add that they are merely the ravings of another prideful Man. More circular reasoning designed to lift the yoke ...[text shortened]... et. I, however, choose to obey the word of God, not the words of prideful, sinful Man.[/b]
    Careful, that chip on your shoulder will end up giving you back pain.
  12. Standard memberSoothfast
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    21 Jul '11 21:54
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Careful, that chip on your shoulder will end up giving you back pain.
    Maybe a bowl of salsa on the other shoulder is in order.
  13. Joined
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    21 Jul '11 22:27
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Your theology is conveniently formulated to justify specific preferred views of the world the way your religion perceives them, and you appear to justify your ontology through verses from the Bible forcing us to accept them as if they were systematic theories of proof; however, you really have no honest way of knowing whether they in fact should lend cr ...[text shortened]... ters and they should be discarded once they are realised;
    Vast Emptiness, Nothing Holy
    😡
    ========================================
    Your theology is conveniently formulated to justify specific preferred views of the world the way your religion perceives them, and you appear to justify your ontology through verses from the Bible forcing us
    =================================


    Oh, I cannot "force" anything upon you.

    ======================================
    to accept them as if they were systematic theories of proof; however, you really have no honest way of knowing whether they in fact should lend credence to your beliefs other than the fact that they derive (according to your religious beliefs) from the scribes of the Bible, insisting that they are “the word of G-d” (over here, your preaching is identical to vishva/Dasa's and RJHinds'πŸ˜‰. Well, they are not. They are written by human beings. The Christian teachings have history too, they too evolved over time. It's all about meta-concepts (as is the case with all the religions around the dial), based on previous archetypes that evolved in specific societies during a specific spacetime.
    =======================================


    I simply wish that some would see how the different attributes of God work together in that one great act of Christ's redemptive death.

    Who could imagine up such a story ? Jesus Christ is too wonderful to not be true.
    Such a Person is believable.

    What are you going to do with a the golden elephant under the rug in the living room of human history ?

    This Man is God become man.




    No Religion

    ====================================
    And it is absurd to attribute fundamental nature to anything, as you attempt to do with the human invention known as G-d, because all things are merely a form which arises from the contingent connection of contingent causes or causes of causes.
    ==================================


    Sixteen hundred years - from Genesis to Revelation. And there is such a unity in the 66 books of the Bible. I don't know how the conspirators coordinated with each other over the centries to invent such a God.

    Then again, you have a solitary life of a man whose impact on history of three and one half years was cataclymic. Jesus of Nazareth, I say, is so wonderful so as to be believable.


    ========================
    Every phenomenon is a phenomenon-in-flux. Otherwise, if the things and the phenomena were the way they appear to be (if they were, that is, indeed inherently existent separated entities), they would be changeless and stable. But no object, no entity, no osberver (the observer universe included) and no phenomenon that is changeless and stable is existent; eternity is an illusion.
    ===============================


    When I bite into a juicy plum, I want to thank God. Of course I could lose myself in the endless mechanical details of the universe.

    I am all for the study of science. But while we do that there is no harm in turning to God and just thanking Him for the plum or grapes, or air, water, sunlight, gravity, rain, wind, etc.

    I remember the night I first went down to a pond at evening after receiving Jesus into my heart. I heard the frogs chirp. I heard the birds sing. And I said to myself "Now I understand. This is my Father's world. My Father made all these things."

    How can I go back to the meaningless vanity of unthankfulness to the heavenly Father ? I would rather come forward to God than hide out in the endless mechanics of the universe.

    I cannot drowned out my longing for the Father in quantum physics, vainly hoping that a Fatherless existence is in those details somewhere.

    =========================
    Thus I have heard: the universe does not have a beginning; it does not fail to have a beginning; it does not “have and not have” a beginning; nor does it neither “have nor not have” a beginning. Therefore, since no thesis is not asserted by me whilst the thesis asserted by you is not tenable, the flaw is not mine.
    =================================


    One matter is believing that God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning. But a much deeper peace is in receiving this God into my innermost being.

    I don't think there is any reason for the universe to exist if God cannot enter into man to produce sons of God. For the Bible says that before the foundation of the world, that is before the creation of the universe, God had a good pleasure to have sons.

    Based on this desire to have those into whom He could dispense His life and nature to produce sons, He then laid the foundation of the universe.

    This means that He created all things for His eternal purpose to have sons. He possessed the plan first. Then to carry out the plan it was necessary to lay the foundation of the world.

    Here is the passage from which I derive this revelation:

    "Even as He [the Father ] chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, Predestinating us onto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, accordnig to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)

    See? God created the universe for His plan which He had before the foundation of the world. That plan was to have sons with His life and nature in love with Him as thier divine Father.

    Zechariah 12:1 puts the matter this way:

    "The burden of the word of Jehovah concerning Israel. Thus declares Jehovah, who stretches forth the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him."

    The heavens are for the earth.
    And earth is for man.
    And man has a spirit within him to receive God the eternal Spirit.

    The universe is stretched out for the existence of the earth.
    The existence of the earth is for man to stand upon.
    And man was a created with a organ, the spirit of man, to touch and receive God that God may have sons in love before Him, receiving His life and nature.

    Modern man is lost in the drowning sense of insignificance.
    Man is not insignificant. God became a man. This means man is very meaningful.

    At least you have to admit that of all men that walk the earth, Jesus Christ acted the most like we would expect God to act if God did become man.

    ===============================
    ... I am not an evil doer; ...
    ==================================


    You may not be a bad evil doer. You may be a good evil doer.
    You may be a Nicodemus.

    Saul, who persecuted the Christian church, was a Pharisee of the strictest moral code, very pious. He was a good evil doer too.
  14. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    21 Jul '11 22:38
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Welcome to the universe.

    No, you did not ASK to be here. Neither did I.
    None of us existed to be able to request that we exist. But we are here.
    The universe is a great place. But you'll find that it does have its problems to.

    But one thing you should be cognizant. This existance does have its Governor. There is Authroity over this creation. A ...[text shortened]... God Who died and rose from the dead.

    One act to redeem all sinners unto eternal life.
    Man! jaywill I like you a lot. Really. I hope you don't mind but have copied your post in an email and sent it to a couple of friends. Keep the posts coming πŸ˜‰
  15. Joined
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    21 Jul '11 22:55
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Man! jaywill I like you a lot. Really. I hope you don't mind but have copied your post in an email and sent it to a couple of friends. Keep the posts coming πŸ˜‰
    Praise the Lord.
    Thank the Lord for His wonderful revelation to man.

    Good website to visit and probably more free from typos then my poor posts.

    www.godseconomy.org
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