Originally posted by wolfgang59Scripture being what it is, i.e., archaic and many times removed from present day mores and conceptions, demands constant updating into the vernacular of its audience.
How do you distinguish the allegorical from the factual in the bible?
I mean ; its not as if the allegorical bits are in italics!
Is it a personal choice or have you been taught?
Doing so requires more than just a deft touch and a dose of charisma--- what passes as leadership in the pulpits today falls so short of the biblical base requirements of pastorship, it makes one want to sit down and cry for a good spell.
The responsible pastors better equip themselves with heavy work loads of study in the original languages of the Scripture, utilizing the ICE method: isagogical, categorical and exegetical.
Originally posted by AgergGood luck on the test; hope you do well.
Regarding your P.S. first, sorry I missed that one - I appreciate your response and I will try and respond to it properly when I have chance (got an interview on Monday, a coding test to be submitted no later than Monday, and some code samples to send off before Tuesday - can only manage small posts here for the time being)
Regarding your response here, all ...[text shortened]... ith all sorts of questions/problems which few (none?) of said theists are willing to consider.
There is no denying that pain and suffering are the order of the day for the residents of hell--- including Satan and all his fallen angels.
My understanding of the topic is that believers receive a resurrection body and enter into the heavenly state with a body akin to what the Lord Jesus Christ donned when He rose from the grave: properties both earthly and ethereal.
I don't recall the unbeliever receiving any similar type body which would withstand hell's fires for a sustained period of time, and my general understanding is that the descriptions used (more by the Lord Jesus Christ than any other speaker, and more from Him on hell than any other topic) were used to convey the torment awaiting those who reject the free gift of salvation.
Isn't the purpose of hell for sinful people to burn and suffer forever?
Where does the Bible say that?
According to these scriptures it is for someone and something else but no mention of humans being there:
Matthew 25:41
Good News Translation (GNT)
41 “Then he (Jesus) will say to those on his left, ‘Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!
Revelation 20:10
Good News Translation (GNT)
10 Then the Devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:14
New Living Translation (NLT)
14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.
So again no mention of humans going there to burn, but it does say that satan and his angels, the beast and false prophets and also death and the grave will be thrown into it.
Again where does the Bible say humans that have sinned will be there?
Originally posted by galveston75It does mention the false prophet, and anyone not in the book of life being thrown there. But I do not believe this is forever, they will burn up and turn to ash, and will be no more. They will cease to exist.
Isn't the purpose of hell for sinful people to burn and suffer forever?
Where does the Bible say that?
According to these scriptures it is for someone and something else but no mention of humans being there:
Matthew 25:41
Good News Translation (GNT)
41 “Then he (Jesus) will say to those on his left, ‘Away from me, you that are under God's ...[text shortened]... l be thrown into it.
Again where does the Bible say humans that have sinned will be there?
If God is all light and has no darkness(which is true), then burning and suffering forever does not seem right. It would seem like vengeance or some other form of darkness.
That is why I do not like the traditional theory of everlasting torture. IMO...
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Originally posted by checkbaiterYour right as it isn't right for a human to be punished forever. In fact the Bible says "the wages of sinning is death" not torture in a burning place. So once one has died, that has paid the price for their sins. Nothing else is required to pay that back as in still being punished forever.
It does mention the false prophet, and anyone not in the book of life being thrown there. But I do not believe this is forever, they will burn up and turn to ash, and will be no more. They will cease to exist.
If God is all light and has no darkness(which is true), then burning and suffering forever does not seem right. It would seem like vengeance or s ...[text shortened]... rm of darkness.
That is why I do not like the traditional theory of everlasting torture. IMO...
Also the Bible says "the dead are conscience of nothing" but are just as the bible says, dead.
Would a parent discipline a child for years or decades for some mistake the child made? A mistake that probably we all could make? Of course not.
One would think that if any human possibly deserved to be tortured forever, it would be Adam for bringing us all sin. But even with the scope of his sin, all God said would happen is simply death and returning to the dust he was made from. No mention at all of Adam still being alive somewhere and being in a burning hell in the Bible.
Originally posted by galveston75The bible also says that the unsaved shall perish and the righteous have everlasting life. Wouldn't one need everlasting life to burn forever?
Your right as it isn't right for a human to be punished forever. In fact the Bible says "the wages of sinning is death" not torture in a burning place. So once one has died, that has paid the price for their sins. Nothing else is required to pay that back as in still being punished forever.
Also the Bible says "the dead are conscience of nothing" bu ...[text shortened]... ention at all of Adam still being alive somewhere and being in a burning hell in the Bible.
Originally posted by wolfgang59Thanks. This burning Lake of Fire is only symbolic and simply alludes to a complete distruction of those things in those scriptures are describing which it also mentions death being thrown in there or done away with.
The voice of reason at last.
If a good god exists its beyond reason that his punishment
should be more grotesque than mankinds. Reward the "good"
with eternal life and let the others die.
... Sounds fair
The reason fire is used in those descriptions is fire causes a complete destruction on anything it consumes. Nothing that goes thru a fire can usually ever survive and would be unrecognizable or usefull or harmful again.
So what does "hell" mean in the original languages it was used in?
"Hell a word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheʼohl′ and the Greek hai′des. In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from sheʼohl′ 31 times and from hai′des 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheʼohl′ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version sheʼohl′ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once."
Notice the words "Sheol & Hades" used. These two words described the common grave or gravedom that all dead humans were burried such as a hole or pit that dead humans would be laid.
Originally posted by AgergYou should look into why he says gnashing of teeth.
According to the King James Bible (any will do!), Matthew says (13:42):"And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Why do souls, burning forever or otherwise, need teeth? what do they eat, and why is eating required in heaven (or hell)? Supposing souls do need to eat, what happens if they engaged so much in a kissing-God's-arse-fest that they forget to eat? Will they die??? 😕
I heard that there was a place that people would sacrifice their children by walking them into a continuous fire. The story could be online somewhere.
Originally posted by RBHILLChildren offered in fire as sacrifice was a pagan or rather idolatry to other gods which required it.
You should look into why he says gnashing of teeth.
I heard that there was a place that people would sacrifice their children by walking them into a continuous fire. The story could be online somewhere.