Originally posted by Grampy BobbyCan you give us an example from your own life of you choosing to believe something that you do not believe?
Then why read and reply to them? Yes, you're damn right, I am optimistic that a few here will still change their minds about accepting rather than rejecting God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life before their opportunities to do so are lost forever. Thanks for your question.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyOriginally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
Insightful questions, sonhouse: "reborn" yes unlike our physical birth on earth; "healthier" than before: absolutely with no more pain or suffering or fears of death or dying; "physical place": yes unlike we could possibly dream of or imagine; heaven is an exponentially mega improved garden or park with perfect environment vs. the place where the first man ...[text shortened]... th were kicked out of the park because God cannot deny His own Divine Integrity.
(to be continued)
What Do We Know About Heaven?
"Our finite minds and temporal frames of reference and most vivid imaginations are totally incapable of even beginning to comprehend what God has in store for all human beings since time began.who have simply said "Yes" rather than "No" to His free gift of salvation and eternal life made possible by Christ's redemptive work on behalf of us all. Yet He has revealed several facts for Christ's Royal Family Members to know now:
1) That we will be face to face with our Lord and Saviour from the moment of our physical death for all eternity. "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." (John 14:1-3)
Invitation: Please feel free to contribute facts which you have also learned about your own home for eternity."
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Originally posted by sonhouse (Page 1)
"Do you imagine heaven as place where our old human bodies are reborn like they were before? Maybe healthier or something? In other words, do you think heaven is a physical place like the surface of a supergiant planet with trees and oceans and stuff?"
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Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Insightful questions, sonhouse: "reborn" yes unlike our physical birth on earth; "healthier" than before: absolutely with no more pain or suffering or fears of death or dying; "physical place": yes unlike we could possibly dream of or imagine; heaven is an exponentially mega improved garden or park with perfect environment vs. the place where the first man and woman were created and walked around naked enjoying perfect sex and food and health until the man disobeyed God's one command and both were kicked out of the park because God cannot deny His own Divine Integrity. (to be continued)"
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sonhouse, has this direct reply above answered most of your initial questions? If not, please restate those questions about heaven you may still have. Thanks for your objective interest in this topic which relates to an "afterlife" (one of several topics suggested by Russ for this spirituality forum).
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Originally posted by Grampy Bobby1) That we will be face to face with our Lord and Saviour from the moment of our physical death for all eternity. "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." (John 14:1-3)
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Brother Grampy, John 14: 1 -3 is not about going to heaven. The Lord's discourse there does not concern us with going to heaven but becoming the living house of God through His going into death and resurrection.
If your pastor system has not taught you this then they surely need to learn about it.
The way to the place the Lord speaks of is a living Person. And the place itself to which they are to be brought is a living Person.
Hie preparation of that place does not concern Jesus fixing up mansions in heaven with luxurious furniture and grand decoration. It is a misunderstanding to think for 2000 years Jesus has been "preparing" big mansions in heaven for all the Christians.
Rather He prepares a place IN GOD for His people by going into His redemptive death and coming again in His victorious resurrection. This is also something that hearers of the Gospel can know.
In the Father's house are many abodes means that all those in whom Christ comes to make an abode in are built up into a corporate dwelling place of God.
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According to Scripture, Christians will be in heaven with Christ for a short period of time and then return with him to earth. Christians will then be involved with the responsibilities of Christ’s earthly Kingdom.
In the future Kingdom there will be different positions and responsibilities. At the Judgment, each person will “receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10). Therefore, every person will not receive the same reward or assume the same responsibilities. So, the question is not, “What will we be doing in heaven,” but, “What will we be doing in our future life on earth?” The answer to this question can be found in the Word of God.
The Lord is going to make a new earth that will literally be an “Eden” or “Paradise” and, just as God gave Adam and Eve work to do in the Original Paradise, there will be work to do in the coming Paradise. In fact, looking back at what God gave Adam and Eve to do in the Garden of Eden provides a prototype or a snapshot of what life will be like in the future Paradise. Genesis 2:15 speaks about two tasks that Adam and Eve had to perform. God put them in Eden “to [1] work it and [2] take care of it.” The NASB says, “to cultivate it and keep it.” Like any farm or garden, Eden required work or “cultivation.” Adam and Eve had to cultivate the garden just as any farmer has to cultivate and work the soil and take care of the plants.
Eden was a garden with wonderful fruits and vegetables, and therefore the second part of Adam and Eve’s job was to “take care of” or “keep” it. The Hebrew word translated “take care of” is shamar, which means, “oversee, protect, keep, have charge of, tend (for flocks and herds), guard, watch, preserve.” The world was full of animals and, in the Original Paradise, all of them were plant eaters (Gen. 1:30). Part of Adam and Eve’s work was to guard the garden and keep the wild animals from grazing in the Garden of Eden. Imagine Eve looking out the window of her house and shouting; “Adam, the lions are eating my favorite shrubbery. Adam! Get them away from my bushes!” Remember, lions will again eat plants in the future, so you may end up shooing them away from your bushes or your vegetable garden.
God gave Adam and Eve authority and responsibility in the Garden of Eden. He gave them work to do. It should, therefore, be no surprise that various types of work will be part of life on the new earth. The types or work mentioned below are almost always found in the context of the Millennial Kingdom, not the Everlasting Kingdom. Some types of work, like “gravediggers,” could not be available in the Everlasting Kingdom because there will be no death. Likewise, because there will not be a temple in the Everlasting Kingdom, all the duties associated with the Temple will be eliminated. Some types of work are clearly stated, while others are only implied. Those that are clearly stated include:
1) Administration and rulership. Isa. 1:26; 32:1; Jer. 3:15; 23:4; Ezek. 44:24; Matt. 19:28; 1 Cor. 6:2 and 3; 2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 2:26 and 27.
2) Builders. Isa. 54:12; 60:10; 61:4; Jer. 30:18; Ezek. 36:10 and 33; Amos 9:14.
3) Cleanup duties. Isa. 9:5; Ezek. 39:14 and 15.
4) Farmers. Isa. 30:23 and 24; 32:20; 61:5; 62:9; Jer. 31:5 and 12; Ezek. 36:9 and 34; 47:12; 48:19; Amos 9:13.
5) Fishermen. Ezek. 47:10.
6) Gravediggers. Ezek. 39:14 and 15.
7) Herdsmen. Isa. 30:23 and 24; 60:6 and 7; 61:5; Jer. 31:12.
8) Landscapers. Isa. 60:13.
9) Metalworkers. Isa. 2:4; 60:17; Micah 4:3.
10) Servants. Isa. 14:2.
11) Temple duties for those Levites who were not pure-hearted. Ezek. 44:10–14.
12) Temple duties for those Levites who stayed faithful. Ezek. 44:15 and 16.
13) Vinedressers. Isa. 25:6; 62:9; Jer. 31:12; Amos 9:13.
14) Workers. Ezek. 48:19.
Types of work that are implied but not specifically mentioned include:
1) Cooks, butchers, and bakers. Isa. 25:6.
2) Musicians. Although everyone will sing and make merry, it seems there will be a need for specialists as there always has been. Isa. 35:10; 65:14; Jer. 30:19; 31:4.
3) Tentmakers. Isa. 54:2; Jer. 30:18.
4) Weavers, tailors, and seamstresses (clothes are worn in the Kingdom). Ezek. 44:17-19; Rev. 19:13,14.
The responsibilities described and implied in Scripture provide a general overview of the kinds of work people will be doing. Those doing the work will include everyone in the Kingdom: Christians, resurrected believers, and the “natural” people who are allowed into the Kingdom at the Sheep and Goat Judgment. Although there will be significant differences in the assignments people receive in the Millennial Kingdom, no one will hunger or be in want. Isaiah 14:30 says, “The poorest of the poor will find pasture, and the needy will lie down in safety.” The picture painted in Scripture of the future Kingdom is one of people enjoying life. They eat and drink, work and play, sing and dance, and enjoy fellowship with their Lord. The Bible does not give, nor does it need to give, a complete description of all the activities in the future. There will be clothing, so there will be tailors and seamstresses, but there is no specific mention of them in the Bible. There will be pots and containers, but there is no mention of potters. There will no doubt be baskets and rugs, but there is no mention of the weaving trades in verses referring to the future Kingdom.
The point is this: the future life on earth will be one of peace and prosperity in a familiar setting. Most people think that eternity will be vastly different from life now, but God did not make a mistake when He created this world and humans as physical beings on it. In fact, He called it “very good.” The Bible describes a future life that will be in many ways very similar to the life that people have lived on earth for centuries—but without disease, war, injustice, hunger, etc. God gives enough information in his Word that people can avoid wild speculation about the future. Bible students can see the future life for what it will be: similar to the way things would have been if Adam and Eve had never sinned and the world had continued to be inhabited by them and their descendants.
When the Kingdom comes and all the saved are in Paradise, will people try to understand their past lives by “Godlight” as Kreeft and other theologians postulate? The biblical evidence suggests they will not. Isaiah 65:17 says, “Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.” No one likes to dwell on painful memories. Although remembering things in the past can be a part of forgiveness and healing, once a person is healed and whole, there is no reason to dwell on past hurts and pains. Philippians 4:8 says, “Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.” Furthermore, Ephesians 5:12 says, “For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.” If these are God’s commands for Christians who live in the midst of a world of sin, how much more will they be true when life in Paradise is enjoyed apart from all the pain of the past? The secret and sinful activities of people today are not a glory to God, and “every hidden thing” will have already been brought up at the Judgment when sinners will receive what they deserve (Eccles. 12:14). When Christians are whole and in their glorious new bodies living in Paradise, it will not glorify God to dwell on this fallen world
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/working-in-the-future-kingdom-what-will-we-be-doing-in-heaven
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyGramps if this makes you feel better that's great.
Insightful questions, sonhouse: "reborn" yes unlike our physical birth on earth; "healthier" than before: absolutely with no more pain or suffering or fears of death or dying; "physical place": yes unlike we could possibly dream of or imagine; heaven is an exponentially mega improved garden or park with perfect environment vs. the place where the first ...[text shortened]... ere kicked out of the park because God cannot deny His own Divine Integrity.
(to be continued)
When my daughter was small it made her feel good to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.
Unfortunately when you die you are going to get put into a hole in the ground where you will slowly rot. All you will be coming face to face with is maggots and weevils.
No perfect food except for the maggots and NO perfect sex.In fact not even any bad sex.
Originally posted by checkbaiterAs they go through the land, anyone who sees a human bone will leave a marker beside it until The Gravedigger buries it in the Valley of Hamon Gog.
According to Scripture, Christians will be in heaven with Christ for a short period of time and then return with him to earth. Christians will then be involved with the responsibilities of Christ’s earthly Kingdom.
In the future Kingdom there will be different positions and responsibilities. At the Judgment, each person will “receive what is due him f ...[text shortened]... /www.truthortradition.com/articles/working-in-the-future-kingdom-what-will-we-be-doing-in-heaven
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyJust a few comments from the Vedas describing the spiritual world. ( from the Srimad Bhagavatam)
[b]What Do We Know About Heaven?
Our finite minds and temporal frames of reference and most vivid imaginations are totally incapable of even beginning to comprehend what God has in store for all human beings since time began.who have simply said "Yes" rather than "No" to His free gift of salvation and eternal life made possible by Christ's redemp ...[text shortened]... ease feel free to contribute facts which you have also learned about your own home for eternity.[/b]
“In those spiritual Vaikuntha planets there are many forests which are very auspicious. In those forests the trees are wish-fulfilling trees, and in all seasons they are filled with flowers and fruits because everything in the Vaikuntha planets is spiritual and personal.
“In the Vaikuntha planets the inhabitants fly in their airplanes, accompanied by their wives and consorts, and eternally sing of the character and activities of the Lord, which are always devoid of all inauspicious qualities. While singing the glories of the Lord, they deride even the presence of the blossoming madhavi flowers, which are fragrant and laden with honey.
“When the king of bees hums in a high pitch, singing the glories of the Lord, there is a temporary lull in the noise of the pigeon, the cuckoo, the crane, the cakravaka, the swan, the parrot, the partridge, and the peacock. Such transcendental birds stop their own singing simply to hear the glories of the Lord.
“Although flowering plants like the mandara, kunda, kurabaka, utpala, campaka, arna, punnaga, nagakeshara, bakula, lily, and parijata are full of transcendental fragrance, they are still conscious of the austerities performed by Tulasi, for Tulasi is given special preference by the Lord, who garlands Himself with Tulasi leaves.
“The inhabitants of Vaikuntha travel in their airplanes made of lapis lazuli, emerald, and gold. Although crowded by their consorts, who have large hips and beautiful smiling faces, the male inhabitants cannot be stimulated to passion by their mirth and beautiful charms.
“The ladies in the Vaikuntha planets are as beautiful as the goddess of fortune herself. Such transcendentally beautiful ladies, their hands playing with lotuses and their leg bangles tinkling, are sometimes seen sweeping the marble walls, which are bedecked at intervals with golden borders, in order to receive the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
“The goddesses of fortune worship the Lord in their own gardens by offering Tulasi leaves on the coral-paved banks of transcendental reservoirs of water. While offering worship to the Lord, they can see on the water the reflection of their beautiful faces with raised noses, and it appears that they have become more beautiful because of the Lord’s kissing their faces.
“
Originally posted by checkbaiterAbsolute rubbish.............
According to Scripture, Christians will be in heaven with Christ for a short period of time and then return with him to earth. Christians will then be involved with the responsibilities of Christ’s earthly Kingdom.
In the future Kingdom there will be different positions and responsibilities. At the Judgment, each person will “receive what is due him f ...[text shortened]... /www.truthortradition.com/articles/working-in-the-future-kingdom-what-will-we-be-doing-in-heaven
Why?
Because you are going to have butchers in this lovely new peaceful world, to chop up all the animals so you can devour the flesh.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAs I asked you before, is it your contention that humans can somehow choose to believe something they simply do not believe?
Our finite minds and temporal frames of reference and most vivid imaginations are totally incapable of even beginning to comprehend what God has in store for all human beings since time began.who have simply said "Yes" rather than "No" to His free gift of salvation and eternal life made possible by Christ's redemptive work on behalf of us all.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyOn your other thread you are claiming that hell is a literal place on earth, in fact in 4 different caverns underground somewhere, (presumably beneath Texas). So, some serious on topic questions for you:
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
[b]What Do We Know About Heaven?
"Our finite minds and temporal frames of reference and most vivid imaginations are totally incapable of even beginning to comprehend what God has in store for all human beings since time began.who have simply said "Yes" rather than "No" to His free gift of salvation a ...[text shortened]... relates to an "afterlife" (one of several topics suggested by Russ for this spirituality forum).[/b]
Do you correspondingly believe that heaven is situated in the earth's atmosphere, or just somewhere non-specific above the clouds? Or somewhere else, and if so where and why? Thank you.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyZERO
[b]What Do We Know About Heaven?
Our finite minds and temporal frames of reference and most vivid imaginations are totally incapable of even beginning to comprehend what God has in store for all human beings since time began.who have simply said "Yes" rather than "No" to His free gift of salvation and eternal life made possible by Christ's redemp ...[text shortened]... ease feel free to contribute facts which you have also learned about your own home for eternity.[/b]