What do you think of lutherans?

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
How? By pointing out deceit among the Catholic Church fathers?

Actually...Luther claimed the support of many Church Fathers, such as St. Augustine. Luther also maintained belief in a number of Catholic beliefs, such as the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

But anyway, you claimed that Lutherans never started wars. But a large number did in Germany which led to periodic warfare after the reformation era. You also claimed that the Catholic Church wanted to stop people reading the Bible. This is not true. Firstly, it was difficult to access Scripture before the advent of the printing press, and as most people could not read or afford to buy books, it was impossible for the layman to read it personally. The controversy at the reformation time was that the Catholic Church placed many restrictions on translations into the vernacular. Latin was the standard language (except Slavonic and Greek in Eastern churches) and attempts to translate the Bible into English or German were not supported. There were however translations into German before Luther came along. The issue was simply that the Catholic Church did not allow those translations to be read in Mass. Luther believed that Scripture should be at the heart of the Mass and that everyone should be able to understand it.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Nor do the leaders of the KKK. They just get the common folks thinking its ok to kill the 'enemy' of the month. So you think the KKK leader who does that and his followers kill, the leader has no blame?
I was aiming that at PF.

And lets not forget that George W Bush has never (as far as we know) personally tortured 'foreign combatants' nor shot Iraqi civilians, yet we are all quite happy to blame him for it.

I was aiming that at PF.[/b]

so when the pope of the time ordered the death of them is he blameless. in southern france thier was a sect who neither belived in any faith but went about there own buisness and hoped if they were attacked by the Rc henry would send troups to defend them alas he did not and they were wiped out. King henry was not as blood thursty as Queen Mary when she tried to wipe out the anglicans.

Originally posted by stoker
King henry was not as blood thursty as Queen Mary when she tried to wipe out the anglicans.

Wow. That is quite a tall claim.

Originally posted by stoker
King henry was not as blood thursty as Queen Mary when she tried to wipe out the anglicans.

What is this, a pissing contest? Which group of Christians killed more than another group?

Grow up. Roman Catholics killed their fair share, Lutherans killed their fair share, Anglicans
theirs and so on.

You want to find the group who killed the fewest? Quakers, I'd guess. Who cares?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Conrau K
Wow. That is quite a tall claim.

no not at all thats why she was named bloody mary,
its wrongly given to mary queen of scots who got beheaded by liz 1.
But quite righly as the last post stated we can not cast the first stone. tho most education over looks there own failing.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Nor do the leaders of the KKK. They just get the common folks thinking its ok to kill the 'enemy' of the month. So you think the KKK leader who does that and his followers kill, the leader has no blame?
I was aiming that at PF.

I am unaware of any Lutherans starting wars of the Reformation. As Conrad pointed out, there were sects and divisions AFTER the schism occurred where much blood was shed. But not by Lutherans. And as for the Catholics, all I have is one word: Inquisition.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
I am unaware of any Lutherans starting wars of the Reformation. As Conrad pointed out, there were sects and divisions AFTER the schism occurred where much blood was shed. But not by Lutherans. And as for the Catholics, all I have is one word: Inquisition.

No; I pointed out that Lutherans did start wars. As did Catholics, as did nearly every religious group. It is an unfortunate symptom of a culture that believed that violence was a legitimate way to spread religious doctrine. Catholics were wrong; Lutherans were wrong.

Originally posted by Conrau K
No; I pointed out that Lutherans did start wars. As did Catholics, as did nearly every religious group. It is an unfortunate symptom of a culture that believed that violence was a legitimate way to spread religious doctrine. Catholics were wrong; Lutherans were wrong.

I am unaware of any strictly Lutheran bodies starting any wars. There may have been sects, offshoots, etc.--but not those that adhered only to Luther's doctrine.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
I am unaware of any strictly Lutheran bodies starting any wars. There may have been sects, offshoots, etc.--but not those that adhered only to Luther's doctrine.

But as others have shown, Luther did support violence. A Lutheran could invoke his works to legitimise violence.

Obviously no Lutheran body could start wars. But that is a cop-out. Lutherans have gone to war and (possibly a majority of) Lutherans have started wars, even if no official Lutheran body endorsed it.

Originally posted by Conrau K
But as others have shown, Luther did support violence. A Lutheran could invoke his works to legitimise violence.

Obviously no Lutheran body could start wars. But that is a cop-out. Lutherans have gone to war and (possibly a majority of) Lutherans have started wars, even if no official Lutheran body endorsed it.

I don't see that as a cop-out. Each to his own opinion.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Each to his own opinion.

Now that is a cop-out.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Now that is a cop-out.

??? That does not compute.

Lutherans reject the true word of god as written in King James. They like all other unbelievers will rot in eternal damnation.

Execept of course for athiests who dont believe in eternal damanation.