1. Joined
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    06 Feb '18 17:278 edits
    In the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, Jesus often says that one must believe Him or believe in Him. When He says this He is speaking of the words He is preaching in His gospel: Believe that He has the authority to speak the word of God, believe that His words are the word of God or to believe the words in and of themselves.

    Jesus further explains that one must believe His words in order to do His words, keep His words, live His words.

    Yet many Christians will take instances where Jesus speaks of believing Him and pervert it into Jesus saying to believe in other things such as believe that "Jesus is your savior", believing in "his death on the cross for justification unto life", believe that " the sacrifice of Jesus, God incarnate, is the only adequate payment for your sins", etc.

    As nonsensical as it is, many Christians think that this is what Jesus is saying.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Feb '18 17:292 edits
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    In the gospel preached by Jesus, Jesus often says that one must believe Him or believe in Him. When He says this He is speaking of the words He is preaching in His gospel: Believe that He has the authority to speak the word of God, believe that His words are the word of God or to believe the words in and of themselves. Jesus further explains that one mus ...[text shortened]... only adequate payment for your sins", etc.

    As absurd as it is, many Christian believe this.
    Believe = Follow / Do His commandments.

    Proclaiming faith / Saying that they Know Christ, is useless.

    And this is reflected in Matt 25 description of the judgment.
    It is only those who DO will enter the Kingdom of God
    All others are cast out.
  3. Joined
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    06 Feb '18 17:481 edit
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Believe = Follow / Do His commandments.

    Proclaiming faith / Saying that they Know Christ, is useless.

    And this is reflected in Matt 25 description of the judgment.
    It is only those who DO will enter the Kingdom of God
    All others are cast out.
    Ultimately it's because they don't believe Jesus. As much as they may speak of believing Jesus or believing in Jesus, the fact is that they don't. Even though Jesus repeatedly states that believing Him is required for eternal live, to live in the kingdom.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    06 Feb '18 20:06
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Ultimately it's because they don't believe Jesus. As much as they may speak of believing Jesus or believing in Jesus, the fact is that they don't. Even though Jesus repeatedly states that believing Him is required for eternal live, to live in the kingdom.
    One question:

    Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to earth to take on the sin of the world and to be a substitutionary blood sacrifice for our sins? To, in fact, be the Savior of man promised in the New Covenant?

    And not just "yeah, I guess so." Do you believe this in your heart, so that the Holy Spirit can fulfill His promise? Or do you think none of this is necessary, that all men can just absolve themselves of their sin by "working it off"?
  5. Joined
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    06 Feb '18 20:26
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    One question:

    Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to earth to take on the sin of the world and to be a substitutionary blood sacrifice for our sins? To, in fact, be the Savior of man promised in the New Covenant?

    And not just "yeah, I guess so." Do you believe this in your heart, so that the Holy Spirit can fulfill His promise? Or do ...[text shortened]... of this is necessary, that all men can just absolve themselves of their sin by "working it off"?
    I am a believer in the complete work at Calvary.
  6. Joined
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    06 Feb '18 20:30
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    One question:

    Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to earth to take on the sin of the world and to be a substitutionary blood sacrifice for our sins? To, in fact, be the Savior of man promised in the New Covenant?

    And not just "yeah, I guess so." Do you believe this in your heart, so that the Holy Spirit can fulfill His promise? Or do ...[text shortened]... of this is necessary, that all men can just absolve themselves of their sin by "working it off"?
    I'm inclined to spell everything out for you even though I've pretty much covered everything your asking in one way or another over the years.

    If you really want to understand what I have in mind, then there are concepts I'd have to convey to you. It would be an iterative process. First I'll need to establish a foundation to build upon.

    But I can't see going to the trouble of doing it if you're not going to bother to formulate well-thought-out substantive responses. There seems to be a serious dearth of that on this forum.

    It's your call.

    .
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Feb '18 21:37
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    I'm inclined to spell everything out for you even though I've pretty much covered everything your asking in one way or another over the years.

    If you really want to understand what I have in mind, then there are concepts I'd have to convey to you. It would be an iterative process. First I'll need to establish a foundation to build upon.

    But I can' ...[text shortened]... ive responses. There seems to be a serious dearth of that on this forum.

    It's your call.

    .
    She lacks the ability to focus. Give the woman a break.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Feb '18 21:37
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I am a believer in the complete work at Calvary.
    Mee too
  9. Joined
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    06 Feb '18 21:38
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Mee too
    By complete I mean past, present, future and eternal,
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Feb '18 22:01
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    By complete I mean past, present, future and eternal,
    Of course. Jesus's work is complete.
    Mans work is not.
  11. Joined
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    07 Feb '18 00:57
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    In the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, Jesus often says that one must believe Him or believe in Him. When He says this He is speaking of the words He is preaching in His gospel: Believe that He has the authority to speak the word of God, believe that His words are the word of God or to believe the words in and of themselves.

    Jesus furth ...[text shortened]... ins", etc.

    As nonsensical as it is, many Christians think that this is what Jesus is saying.
    According to Jesus it means putting into practice God's commands.
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    07 Feb '18 01:18
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    One question:

    Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to earth to take on the sin of the world and to be a substitutionary blood sacrifice for our sins? To, in fact, be the Savior of man promised in the New Covenant?

    And not just "yeah, I guess so." Do you believe this in your heart, so that the Holy Spirit can fulfill His promise? Or do ...[text shortened]... of this is necessary, that all men can just absolve themselves of their sin by "working it off"?
    psst... you are God. no word of a lie, I crap you not.
    who can judge you? who can make amends? who can forgive? who ultimately has the power? It's you and when you rise to this knowledge your life will change and others will be in awe. I live this, i dont just throw it around
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Feb '18 04:24
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Of course. Jesus's work is complete.
    Mans work is not.
    Read Revelation sometime.

    He's not done yet.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Feb '18 04:26
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    I'm inclined to spell everything out for you even though I've pretty much covered everything your asking in one way or another over the years.

    If you really want to understand what I have in mind, then there are concepts I'd have to convey to you. It would be an iterative process. First I'll need to establish a foundation to build upon.

    But I can' ...[text shortened]... ive responses. There seems to be a serious dearth of that on this forum.

    It's your call.

    .
    This is about what I expected. However, I'm still at work, I'll get into this once I get home.
  15. Standard memberdj2becker
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    07 Feb '18 04:28
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    In the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, Jesus often says that one must believe Him or believe in Him. When He says this He is speaking of the words He is preaching in His gospel: Believe that He has the authority to speak the word of God, believe that His words are the word of God or to believe the words in and of themselves.

    Jesus furth ...[text shortened]... ins", etc.

    As nonsensical as it is, many Christians think that this is what Jesus is saying.
    What do you think Jesus meant when he said we need to be born again?
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