What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

Originally posted by @thinkofone

Seems like in your myopic way of viewing things,

You are often telling me to "Focus, Focus, Focus Jaywill."
Now, you don't like on WHAT I focus, I guess.

When did the ministry of Jesus come to a conclusion ?
Please.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
If you'd been paying attention, rajk999 and I aren't really "twins". From what I gather, he believes in a "faith + good works" theology - he can correct me if I haven't captured it exactly right here.

I on the other hand am advocating for the salvation through righteousness theology preached by Jesus during His ministry. It is a logical continuation o ...[text shortened]... her of us believe in the "faith alone" theology. That and an emphasis on the teachings of Jesus.

So it's not about the Lamb of God at all?

You guys sound like a couple of unbelievers trying to find a loophole.

By the way, the OT righteousness of the prophets is simply not good enough once Jesus started his NT ministry. Yes, belief in him IS required.

Originally posted by @suzianne
So it's not about the Lamb of God at all?

You guys sound like a couple of unbelievers trying to find a loophole.

By the way, the OT righteousness of the prophets is simply not good enough once Jesus started his NT ministry. Yes, belief in him IS required.

So it's not about the Lamb of God at all?

Not in a vicarious atonement sort of way. The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry is not about vicarious atonement. Ultimately it is about truly "taking away the sins of the world". Not merely masking the sins.

You guys sound like a couple of unbelievers trying to find a loophole.

Actually the "loophole" is in not having to become a truly righteous person in order to get salvation / get eternal life / live in the kingdom.

Such a theology is antithetical to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. It is a self-serving theology.

By the way, the OT righteousness of the prophets is simply not good enough once Jesus started his NT ministry.

I wasn't speaking of the "OT righteousness of the prophets" per se. I was speaking of the salvation through righteousness theology outlined by God. The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry was a logical CONTINUATION of this. Hopefully you can make that distinction.

Yes, belief in him IS required.

Of course belief in Him is required. When Jesus was preaching His gospel He used the terms "believe Him" and "believe in Him" essentially in three different ways:
1) Believe that He has the authority to speak the word of God
2) Believe that His words are the word of God
3) Believe His words in and of themselves.
Jesus did NOT use them to mean to believe in the "redemptive work on the cross for salvation" or what have you.

Christ's teaching about His DEATH was a very important part of Christ's preaching. It is very wrong to teach that Jesus did not focus on His upcoming DEATH as crucial to His work.

Having said that, it is important to realize that He did not always speak of this DEATH in terms of the blood for forgiveness. Sometimes He spoke of His death in other crucial aspects which relate to salvation.

Examples to follow.

Christ's death being crucial to His salvation:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life." (John 3:14,15)

His blood is not mentioned. But His death is. What can Him being "lifted up" mean besides being lifted up on His cross?

The snake bitten people were dying in Numbers 21:4-9. God told Moses to lift up a bronze serpent on a pole. Whoever gazed upon that bronze serpent on the pole would be healed of the serpent poison.

Jesus Christ taught that that symbolism pointed to Him being lifted up to give eternal life to those who believe in Him.
This is very brief.

Another example below.

Christ lifted up like the bronze serpent in Numbers 21 is Christ teaching of the crucial centrality of His DEATH. Yet the blood of redemption is not mentioned per se in John 3:14,15.

Again, the centrality of His DEATH is taught in His ministry:

"The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.

Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:23b,24)

This is Christ dying to produce more of what He Himself is.
The one grain dies. The much fruit of many grains are produced.

This is the duplicating aspect of Christ's death.
It is crucial that He die. If He does not DIE - fall into the ground and die - many grains of the much fruit will not be brought about.

Both as the lifted up bronze serpent and the grain that falls into the ground to die, Jesus Christ taught of the critical nature of His death to accomplish His salvation for man.

So in the Gospel of John the death of Christ has three aspects crucial to salvation, and "His work on the cross".

He was the sacrificed Lamb of God for redemption.
He was the bronze serpent lifted up for termination - ie. killing the serpent (Satan, who has poisoned all of mankind).
He was the one grain that would not abide alone, but die for multiplication.

Two of these aspects come from the mouth of Jesus Himself directly - ( John 3:14,15; John 12:23,24 ).
One comes from the mouth of John the Baptist.

Readers can make up their own minds who understood better why Jesus came - John the Baptist or ThinkOfOne.

I believe ThinkOfOne does not have a more accurate inside story on this. Rather John the Baptist and John the Apostle understood that His death was that of a redeeming Lamb of God for redemption.

"The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29)

This is brief.