Originally posted by Paul Dirac III think prayer fixes things, but God is not a someone whose lamb we rub
Not to put words in your mouth, but I sense you are saying that prayer cannot fix broken things.
Or are you willing to try the universal mountain lion protection prayer?
three times and get a wish He is Lord. God gives and takes away, this life
is not forever, our lives here are not forever, and where we are going after
this is of more importance than where we are now. Prayer matters a great
deal, I think we need to be bathed in it to tell you the truth, mainly to keep
our walk straight and follow God's lead in this life.
Kelly
Originally posted by sonhouseNot sure how or why you think the things you do, first off you dismiss God
Keep up your fantasy, you are in deep psychological need of it.
I know I will go on also, but as plant food and whatever genes I have spread out around the planet. That's enough for me, that leaves me free NOT to worry about any afterlife BS.
Other than your fairybook bible, what kind of proof do you have about any kind of afterlife?
First off, we a ...[text shortened]... of behavior is going to give a deity a warm and fuzzy feeling about humankind? I don't think so.
than you turn around and say if God is real we would only be fleas on the
back of such a deity. This instead of a God who knows everything, who is
everywhere in His completeness, all powerful, so that no piece of knowledge
would escape Him, no speck of the universe would be over looked. Why
would this God be so flakey to not grasp anyone or anything, period?
You do draw a pretty picture on how, who, and what you think God is, as
you tell us there is none.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayThere are a couple things you said that does not mesh with the Bible. But you do that often ie have beliefs which are unsurported .. So here they are :
I think prayer fixes things, but God is not a someone whose lamb we rub
three times and get a wish He is Lord. God gives and takes away, this life
is not forever, our lives here are not forever, and where we are going after
this is of more importance than where we are now. Prayer matters a great
deal, I think we need to be bathed in it to tell you the truth, mainly to keep
our walk straight and follow God's lead in this life.
Kelly
1. There is such a thing as too much prayer. Bathing in it? Where you go that from?
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. (Matthew 6:7-8 KJV)
Somehow what you say is different from what Christ says.
2. Prayer works well with the righteous. However it seems that you are saying something different:
1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
You got that? IF you are righteous, THEN God hears your prayers otherwise his face is turned against you. And those are not isolated verses. There are more.
I know you believe that all Christians have the righteousness of Christ in them, or have Gods spirit and they automatically are righteous, but the Bible does not seem to support that doctrine.
Originally posted by Rajk999"I know you believe that all Christians have the righteousness of Christ in them, or have Gods spirit and they automatically are righteous, but the Bible does not seem to support that doctrine."
There are a couple things you said that does not mesh with the Bible. But you do that often ie have beliefs which are unsurported .. So here they are :
1. There is such a thing as too much prayer. Bathing in it? Where you go that from?
[i]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their ...[text shortened]... irit and they automatically are righteous, but the Bible does not seem to support that doctrine.
Romans 4:23-25, 8:9
1 Corinthians 3:16
2 Corinthians 3:3
Galatians 4:6
Ephesians 2:22
Originally posted by Rajk999You know, I'm not going to be in any hurry to respond to you since you
There are a couple things you said that does not mesh with the Bible. But you do that often ie have beliefs which are unsurported .. So here they are :
1. There is such a thing as too much prayer. Bathing in it? Where you go that from?
[i]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their ...[text shortened]... irit and they automatically are righteous, but the Bible does not seem to support that doctrine.
seem to avoid responding to my questions to you. I will tell you this
however you really should read the whole Bible instead of the small
handful of verses you quote to respond to anything anyone ever says that
disagree with.
Kelly
Originally posted by josephwhey what's with the grandiose tittles,
[b]"I know you believe that all Christians have the righteousness of Christ in them, or have Gods spirit and they automatically are righteous, but the Bible does not seem to support that doctrine."
Romans 4:23-25, 8:9
1 Corinthians 3:16
2 Corinthians 3:3
Galatians 4:6
Ephesians 2:22[/b]
scourge of windbags
bane of obsfucators
2 edits
Originally posted by josephwIm interested in how that make the Christian AUTOMATICALLY RIGHTEOUS.
[b]"I know you believe that all Christians have the righteousness of Christ in them, or have Gods spirit and they automatically are righteous, but the Bible does not seem to support that doctrine."
Romans 4:23-25, 8:9
1 Corinthians 3:16
2 Corinthians 3:3
Galatians 4:6
Ephesians 2:22[/b]
Here are your verses:
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Do any of your verses support what many here believe - ie that Christians are automatically righteous. I can quote references that show that to have the Spirit of Christ does not make one automatically righteous and that person can sine and/or fall away.
The 'automatically righteous' part is the issue.
Originally posted by Rajk999For someone who pushes that people don't need Jesus but just good works
There are a couple things you said that does not mesh with the Bible. But you do that often ie have beliefs which are unsurported .. So here they are :
1. There is such a thing as too much prayer. Bathing in it? Where you go that from?
[i]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their ...[text shortened]... irit and they automatically are righteous, but the Bible does not seem to support that doctrine.
to enter God's Kingdom I'd say having beliefs that do not mesh with the
Bible actually falls into your backyard.
With respect to prayer, you should read the Bible from cover to cover and
not settle on just a few verses you use to beat people up with. You will see
that we are called to prayer, and it should be a very important part of our
lives and there is not such a thing as to much prayer. I guess for someone
who avoids God's Spirit as you do, it may be the proper thing to do in your
eyes.
Here are a couple of verses:
1 Thessalonians 5:
16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
The above verse we see that God wants to be praying all the time, with
the proper attitude regardless of what is going on in our lives.
Matthew 5:43-45New International Version (NIV)
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Here we see that God loves us and those that would be our enemy, that we
are to pray for those that would do us harm, again proper attitude and
how God wants us to live.
Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Here we see that God doesn't want to us make a big show of our spiritual
life, our works with God in prayer should no be for show, but a reality that
has nothing to do with others seeing us.
I've not said we should go to God with some repetition, you accuse me of
something that I've not at all called for. You take lessons from Satan, it
seems that most of your posts you read into something someone else says
you plug into it some wrong and spout off as if they actually said something
they did not.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayPraying and
For someone who pushes that people don't need Jesus but just good works
to enter God's Kingdom I'd say having beliefs that do not mesh with the
Bible actually falls into your backyard.
With respect to prayer, you should read the Bible from cover to cover and
not settle on just a few verses you use to beat people up with. You will see
that we are call ...[text shortened]... u plug into it some wrong and spout off as if they actually said something
they did not.
Kelly
Bathing in it.
Two completely different things.
Christ said how to prayer. It was short and to the point.
Nothing about bathing in it.
You are as usual fooling yourself.
Originally posted by Rajk999I think Kelly's fellowship is more helpful.
Praying and
Bathing in it.
Two completely different things.
Christ said how to prayer. It was short and to the point.
Nothing about bathing in it.
You are as usual fooling yourself.
Your usual legalism is not that helpful.
The sense of life and peace informs the Christian about all matters including prayer. And if one has life and peace while pouring out their heart in "bathing" prayer, that is quite good.
When the sense of life and peace informs the Christian that his or her praying has entered the realm of the exercise of the flesh, the Christian learns by practice and experience to go along with the sense of life and peace.
Some situations may in fact call for "bathing" prayer. Some loving hearts toward God may voluntarily decide to bath in prayer for sheer enjoyment of communing with God.
Who are you - the Prayer Police ? Jesus the One who you say told us how to pray told us and showed us many things. He also demonstrated beseeching His Father three times about a desperate situation facing Him on the night of His betrayal. Who can say that Jesus did not practice an intense bathing Himself in prayer that night in Gethsemane ?
He got to the point more than once and with strong crying and even drops of blood coming from His head like sweat.
There is a TIME for everything under the sun. And there is a time for a simple straightfoward request, to the point, matter of fact faith praying to the Father. And there is a time to pour out one's soul before God with utter earnestness struggling against doubt, striving against temptation.
There is a time for both kinds of prayer in the spiritual journey.
Originally posted by sonshipFirst, making derogatory statements about the teachings of Christ again? Calling it legalism? You go pal .. its your funeral.
I think Kelly's fellowship is more helpful.
Your usual legalism is not that helpful.
The sense of life and peace informs the Christian about all matters including prayer. And if one has life and peace while pouring out their heart in "bathing" prayer, that is quite good.
When the sense of life and peace informs the Christian that his or her ...[text shortened]... iving against temptation.
There is a time for both kinds of prayer in the spiritual journey.
Next, KJ was referring to 'bathing in it' as a normal day to day thing, and not as an exception.
Originally posted by Rajk999
First, making derogatory statements about the teachings of Christ again? Calling it legalism? You go pal .. its your funeral.
Next, KJ was referring to 'bathing in it' as a normal day to day thing, and not as an exception.
First, making derogatory statements about the teachings of Christ again?
Since this is in the form of a question, let me asnwer.
No. I was not making derogatory statements about Christ's ministry. I was making a statement about your legalism. But I think you knew that.