What I envy about theists

Originally posted by CalJust
I totally agree with this statement. Admittedly, I am an engineer and have not even had the one basic course of philosophy that twhitehead mentions, but I have followed this debate with interest.

In this day and age, there is nothing stopping you exploring beyond engineering:
https://www.edx.org

Originally posted by twhitehead
In this day and age, there is nothing stopping you exploring beyond engineering:
https://www.edx.org

Touche.

I can, however, claim that I have a wide interest in non-engineering matters, especially music, nature and wildlife, history, religions, etc.

Philosophy - not so much, although two of my three children studied it, and one majored in it. This is the Buddhist - we have weird discussions!
(Edit: one book we discussed was The Monk and the Philosopher, where a father and son discuss these two subjects, the son being a Buddhist monk, and the father a professional philosopher.)

Originally posted by FMF
So you're asking me why I ~ myself ~ don't go and look for examples of questions you've asked that weren't answered?

pffft.... I don't care if you answer my questions or not. I've never expected you to answer them. I was making a point about how you consistently argue by simply asking leading questions.

At the Eden thread you asked me the same question four times in a row. And each time I answered all you did was to ask the same question again.... ???? After answering you for the fourth time you apparently gave up and said "Neither of us know."

So after failing to trip me up four times in row, even then you couldn't bring yourself to simply say "I don't know", you had to include me in that statement. But just out of curiosity, what exactly is "Neither of us know" supposed to mean? Is that your way of claiming a draw? LOL



A legend in your own time, or a legend in your own mind?

Originally posted by twhitehead
In this day and age, there is nothing stopping you exploring beyond engineering:
https://www.edx.org

You haven't replied whether you agree that Morality is culturally determined, or whether there is a universal, absolute Morality?

I did not ask it in so many words, but I d so now...

Originally posted by lemon lime
pffft.... I don't care if you answer my questions or not.

Which questions?

Originally posted by lemon lime
So after failing to trip me up four times in row, even then you couldn't bring yourself to simply say "I don't know", you had to include me in that statement. But just out of curiosity, what exactly is "Neither of us know" supposed to mean? Is that your way of claiming a draw? LOL

No. How could there be a "draw" in a discussion like ours? What a strange perspective you have. I believe Genesis could work as a metaphor if there was a beginning. You believe that Genesis has got it right. Do either of us "know" if Genesis is right? No we don't.

-Removed-

I was wondering when (or if) you would show up here. FMF could use your support right now. He's apparently running out of steam, and doesn't seem to know what to do when someone is able to answer the same question four times in a row.

Are you referring to your questions about evidence? I recall either rejecting your definition of evidence, or you rejecting my definition of evidence. Either way (or both) refresh my memory... what questions of yours did I ignore?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I I recall either rejecting your definition of evidence, or you rejecting my definition of evidence.

You claimed that the Bible was not evidence supporting Christian doctrine when clearly it is. Was this one of those situations you call a "draw"? 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
No. How could there be a "draw" in a discussion like ours? What a strange perspective you have. I believe Genesis could work as a metaphor if there was a beginning. You believe that Genesis has got it right. Do either of us "know" if Genesis is right? No we don't.

In that case (and in accordance with you're own method of reasoning) we don't actually know if the big bang theory is right, or if it's simply a metaphor for how the universe began. But seriously, do the words 'Genesis' and 'metaphor' automatically match up in your mind for any particular reason?

My "strange" perspective is a logical response to many your strange questions and comments. After all is said and done, what can "Neither of us know?" mean if it doesn't mean you've decided the discussion has ended in a draw? I don't recall agreeing to a draw... do you recall me agreeing to one? Or do you intend to ask the same question again for the fifth time?

And if I don't answer for a fifth time, do you intend to claim victory? Have you given up trying to bludgeon me to death by asking the same question over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again until I give up answering you?

Originally posted by FMF
You claimed that the Bible was not evidence supporting Christian doctrine when clearly it is. Was this one of those situations you call a "draw"? 🙂

I don't recall making that specific claim. Of course the Bible contains Christian doctrine, but I don't think that was the specific question asked of me. I'll go back and re-read to see exactly what was said.

Originally posted by lemon lime
But seriously, do the words 'Genesis' and 'metaphor' automatically match up in your mind for any particular reason?

Yes, because to me the stories in Genesis are mostly metaphorical and not historical. We do not need to reach agreement on it, however.

Originally posted by lemon lime
And if I don't answer for a fifth time, do you intend to claim victory? Have you given up trying to bludgeon me to death by asking the same question over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again until I give up answering you?

I asked several times because that's what it took to get an unequivocal answer from you, even after having given my own answer.

Originally posted by lemon lime
My "strange" perspective is a logical response to many your strange questions and comments. After all is said and done, what can "Neither of us know?" mean if it doesn't mean you've decided the discussion has ended in a draw? I don't recall agreeing to a draw... do you recall me agreeing to one?

It is you who has introduced the idea of a "draw" into this discussion, not me. It is your notion and not mine.

Originally posted by lemon lime
was making a point about how you consistently argue by simply asking leading questions.

Leading questions may not be accepted when questioning a witness in a court of law in a criminal case, but there is nothing wrong with leading questions in a debate or discussion especially if someone is being equivocal or is refusing to clear up a contradiction or assertion that he refuses to substantiate or reiterate.

Originally posted by FMF
Are your beliefs really so brittle that you are afraid you might say something about them that you cannot defend or that they can somehow be used "against" you? 🙂

Do you ever get tired of playing this game?

I think it's better (after nearly 30 years) that you eventually admitted to yourself what you really believe and don't believe... imo it's better than being a counterfeit Christian. If you don't know what a counterfeit Christian is then ask the esteemed Christian, brother Dive. He might have an idea of what that is.