1. Donationbuckky
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    07 Apr '09 17:09
    Christian for the most part try to live a better life, and are more trustworthy than the average heathen. I worked at a recording studio in Kansas City a few ago, and for commercial work dealing with ad agency people Christian musicians were brought in almost exclusively because they could be counted on to show up, and be civilized with the client. Other musiians in town that were heavy drinkers, and drug people were not called in for the gig's even though they might be better musicians. The fear of them saying or doing the wrong thing keep the Christians working. It's all religious people I find trying to live a better life that make them better employees. They might have some wacked out ideas in things but are great workers.
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    07 Apr '09 17:35
    Originally posted by buckky
    Christian for the most part try to live a better life, and are more trustworthy than the average heathen. I worked at a recording studio in Kansas City a few ago, and for commercial work dealing with ad agency people Christian musicians were brought in almost exclusively because they could be counted on to show up, and be civilized with the client. Other musi ...[text shortened]... them better employees. They might have some wacked out ideas in things but are great workers.
    the Power of Biblical principles Buccky my friend!
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    07 Apr '09 17:39
    They're not Muslims.
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    07 Apr '09 20:50
    actually Muslims are also very hard working and conscientious! not being given to drinking alcohol to excess either!
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    07 Apr '09 22:501 edit
    Originally posted by buckky
    Christian for the most part try to live a better life, and are more trustworthy than the average heathen. I worked at a recording studio in Kansas City a few ago, and for commercial work dealing with ad agency people Christian musicians were brought in almost exclusively because they could be counted on to show up, and be civilized with the client. Other musi them better employees. They might have some wacked out ideas in things but are great workers.
    It's been my experience that while Christians are generally conscientious about the appearance of propriety, it is also generally a facade. Underneath the veneer, they are no more moral than non-Christians. Many are what Jesus called "wolves in sheep's clothing". In fact, the most dishonest people I have come across have all been Christians. Has this not been your experience?
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    08 Apr '09 11:27
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    It's been my experience that while Christians are generally conscientious about the appearance of propriety, it is also generally a facade. Underneath the veneer, they are no more moral than non-Christians. Many are what Jesus called "wolves in sheep's clothing". In fact, the most dishonest people I have come across have all been Christians. Has this not been your experience?
    what is it about Bucckys text that you do not understand? his experience is entirely opposite to yours, why should that be the case? are you prejudiced? look for faults? display a predisposition for self righteousness? or simply have had a different experience? one must ponder this, for to be sure Buccky is the first to admit his mistakes, yet he is able to see virtue in others, why cant you?
  7. Cape Town
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    08 Apr '09 11:37
    Originally posted by buckky
    Christian for the most part try to live a better life, and are more trustworthy than the average heathen. I worked at a recording studio in Kansas City a few ago, and for commercial work dealing with ad agency people Christian musicians were brought in almost exclusively because they could be counted on to show up, and be civilized with the client. Other musi ...[text shortened]... them better employees. They might have some wacked out ideas in things but are great workers.
    In Zambia most people claim to be Christian. The Watch Towers in Zambia have a reputation for being very trustworthy, but for most other people you really cant draw any conclusions from the fact that they claim to be Christian or by the frequency that they go to Church etc.
    I suspect buckkys experience is specific to a particular group - musicians. In Zambia many musicians are Christian but are not promoting that aspect in their music and may display some rather undesirable behavior(excessive drinking, rudeness etc). Those that are promoting Christianity through their music on the other hand would certainly try to put on a show of being more respectable etc. However, off the stage I doubt there is very much difference.
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    08 Apr '09 11:412 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    In Zambia most people claim to be Christian. The Watch Towers in Zambia have a reputation for being very trustworthy, but for most other people you really cant draw any conclusions from the fact that they claim to be Christian or by the frequency that they go to Church etc.
    I suspect buckkys experience is specific to a particular group - musicians. In Za ...[text shortened]... how of being more respectable etc. However, off the stage I doubt there is very much difference.
    The watch towers, Jehovah's Witnesses as they are termed, my wife is one! and she is the most loyal, loving, kind, considerate and trustworthy person i know!
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    08 Apr '09 12:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what is it about Bucckys text that you do not understand? his experience is entirely opposite to yours, why should that be the case? are you prejudiced? look for faults? display a predisposition for self righteousness? or simply have had a different experience? one must ponder this, for to be sure Buccky is the first to admit his mistakes, yet he is able to see virtue in others, why cant you?
    His experience is different. That isn't necessarily a sign of prejudice. Is it so shocking that two people have different experiences?

    I think it's silly to think that one person's experience is somehow an actual indication that somehow the generalization that christians are harder working and more ethical somehow makes it true (it doesn't make it false either).

    There are numerous reasons why two person's experiences could be opposite - many of which don't have anything to do with prejudice or self-righteousness .
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    08 Apr '09 12:423 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what is it about Bucckys text that you do not understand? his experience is entirely opposite to yours, why should that be the case? are you prejudiced? look for faults? display a predisposition for self righteousness? or simply have had a different experience? one must ponder this, for to be sure Buccky is the first to admit his mistakes, yet he is able to see virtue in others, why cant you?
    The vast majority of people that I have spoken to have found Christians no more moral than non-Christians. This includes a large percentage of Christians. I asked Buckky about his overall experience because his conclusion seems to be largely based on his scenario with musicians which is very limited in nature. The comparison is between two subsets of musicians: Christians versus "heavy drinkers and drug people." When one subset is "heavy drinkers and drug people" its really not difficult to be more likely to "show up, and be civilized with the client." Also chances are that a fair number of the "heavy drinkers and drug people" are in fact Christians anyway.

    Of course, part of my experience is with "Christians" like you who will lie and practice all manner of deceit in order to try to preserve their self-image. There's nothing "trustworthy" in that.
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    08 Apr '09 13:06
    Originally posted by buckky
    Christian for the most part try to live a better life, and are more trustworthy than the average heathen.
    I am curious. Is this very general statement based entirely on your experience in a recording studio or is it your general impression after interacting with Christians and heathens alike? Do you know many Christians on a personal basis? What about heathens?
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    08 Apr '09 13:39
    Originally posted by buckky
    Christian for the most part try to live a better life, and are more trustworthy than the average heathen. I worked at a recording studio in Kansas City a few ago, and for commercial work dealing with ad agency people Christian musicians were brought in almost exclusively because they could be counted on to show up, and be civilized with the client. Other musi ...[text shortened]... them better employees. They might have some wacked out ideas in things but are great workers.
    I think a more interesting question is, is the world a better place because of Christianity? For example, is society a better place because of it? Examples might include figures such as Ghandi and Martin Luther King employing Christ like approaches to protest. Another example might be that a great deal of knowledge written down in antiquity was saved for future generations due to the efforts by monks etc.
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    08 Apr '09 14:30
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think a more interesting question is, is the world a better place because of Christianity? For example, is society a better place because of it? Examples might include figures such as Ghandi and Martin Luther King employing Christ like approaches to protest. Another example might be that a great deal of knowledge written down in antiquity was saved for future generations due to the efforts by monks etc.
    But both of your examples would be hard to prove. Ghandi and Martin Luther King like figures could perfectly well exist without religion, it is interesting to note that even you shy away from attributing their methods and success directly to religion but merely point out the parallels. One could even argue that such figures have frequently been the target of religion or religious groups - as was Jesus. Without Judaism, Jesus would probably have lived longer and possibly even created a wonderful socialist world, instead nearly all the people who read about him care more about the fate of their supposedly immortal soul than they do about Jesus' message of compassion and love.

    As for your point about knowledge, there is plenty of evidence that secular governments kept records just as effectively. Religious people are guilty of destroying documents and deliberately restricting the flow of knowledge.
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    08 Apr '09 14:52
    Originally posted by whodey
    Another example might be that a great deal of knowledge written down in antiquity was saved for future generations due to the efforts by monks etc.
    The opposite side can also be argued. For instance, it was Christians who burned down the library at Alexandria, destroying the "pagan" knowledge.

    However, I think a Christian should be trying to live a good life (out of love for others, not out of greed/power/self righteousness), and, certainly those that I know, are, on the whole, "good" people, much like Buckky described. What tarnishes Christianity is people using it for power - would those people in Zambia go to church if they weren't (perhaps subtly) forced to? What about the crusades, and the power-wielding crazed popes of yesteryear?
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    08 Apr '09 14:551 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    But both of your examples would be hard to prove. Ghandi and Martin Luther King like figures could perfectly well exist without religion, it is interesting to note that even you shy away from attributing their methods and success directly to religion but merely point out the parallels. One could even argue that such figures have frequently been the target s people are guilty of destroying documents and deliberately restricting the flow of knowledge.
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    Religious people are guilty of destroying documents and deliberately restricting the flow of knowledge.
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    Like some Evolutionists insisting that only their dogma be taught in public schools. Their religion calls for all teaching pointing to an intelligent design as a possible source of nature, be exterminated from the minds of young people.
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