What if ...

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Firstly, cannot imagine why a non-believer would be scared of an after-life he doesn't believe in. Surely it is only believers who are scared; scared that they may not have done enough in this life and scared that they may have been backing the wrong religion.

Secondly, do you live a "good" life because you want to get a good deal in the after-life? An ...[text shortened]... if this is the case what ungodly things would you get up to without this threat of judgement?

In keeping with the theme of the thread, what if...
When your body dies that your spiritual soul (the real you)
is transported to a place that you are to be judged by what
you did in your body. And the result of the judgment is
that you will either face an eternity of happiness or and
eternity of torment.

Then, what if... While you are living in your body you are
told about this. And, what if... You learn how this judgment
is decided and how you can choose which judgment your
spiritual soul will receive.

Would you consider it important to believe it, if it were true?

I know this is nonsense to you and you don't believe it is true;
but I am asking this question based on the slight possibility
that this is what happens.

What is your true feelings about the benefit of believing in this
case?

Originally posted by RJHinds
In keeping with the theme of the thread, what if...
When your body dies that your spiritual soul (the real you)
is transported to a place that you are to be judged by what
you did in your body. And the result of the judgment is
that you will either face an eternity of happiness or and
eternity of torment.

Then, what if... While you are living in yo ...[text shortened]... is is what happens.

What is your true feelings about the benefit of believing in this
case?

Are you wading into pascals wager territory?


Anyhow going with your what if... [in italics]

God has made it clear (via the bible naturally) that he doesn't really give a damn what you do
as long as you believe in and worship him and repent for all your sins before you die.

You can live as good a life as it is possible to lead and not believe in god and you spend forever
in hell.

You lead a life on 'sin' and evil but worship god and repent before you die and you get a mild ticking
off and then get admitted to heaven.


God is an egomaniac.



If all god cared about was whether or not people lived a good life then he wouldn't make entry into heaven
and avoidance of hell, conditional on belief in himself above all else.


So my response is that this god is not worthy of being worshipped.
And if that sends me to hell then damit I'm raising an army to take this sucker out.



However as the whole thing is a fairy tale....


There is absolutely no reason to think that there is a soul, or an afterlife or a god.

Belief in such things can and does affect the way people treat others and deal with life in a negative way.

So my response is act like this is the only existence we have, there is no second eternal life following, so
make the most of your life, and try to make your life, and the lives of those around you as good, and worthwhile
as possible.

If there turns out to be a god and an afterlife, and he is worth anything at all, then this will get you in to heaven.
If there is no afterlife, at least you did your utmost to make this world as good a place as was possible.
And endeavoured to make it better for the next generation.

Originally posted by RJHinds
In keeping with the theme of the thread, what if...
When your body dies that your spiritual soul (the real you)
is transported to a place that you are to be judged by what
you did in your body. And the result of the judgment is
that you will either face an eternity of happiness or and
eternity of torment.

Then, what if... While you are living in yo ...[text shortened]... is is what happens.

What is your true feelings about the benefit of believing in this
case?

Yes - if you truly believe in an after-life, a heaven, a hell, judgement et c. then of course you must do what you feel is best for yourself.

My god I'm agreeing with you!

My reply was to do with non-believers. (being scared ...)

My opening post was just putting forward the scenario (equally likely as your beliefs) that god was quite random and would punish everyone like yourself) who believes in him and reward skeptics (like me). If my proposed god were true our world would look no different then it does now .... so how does anyone know which one of those gods we got?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Firstly, cannot imagine why a non-believer would be scared of an after-life he doesn't believe in. Surely it is only believers who are scared; scared that they may not have done enough in this life and scared that they may have been backing the wrong religion.

Secondly, do you live a "good" life because you want to get a good deal in the after-life? An ...[text shortened]... if this is the case what ungodly things would you get up to without this threat of judgement?

You think believers in Jesus are scared? Jesus rose from the dead. Remember?

Death has us all in its sight. No one escapes its grasp. Except Jesus, and those of us who believe. No other faith offers that hope.

But you twisted my words. I said, and meant, that the idea that what we do in this life determines what we receive in the next, may be a scary thought to some.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
there were some omnipotent, omniscient creature that created the universe a few thosand years ago and he/she decided to hide his/her existance from all but the most stupid.

Then at Judgement Day all the believers are sent to eternal damnation for being so gullible and all the non-believers go to heaven.

What if ....

[b] In other words how would that scenario differ from our current world?[/b]

That theory of a burning hell does not exist in the Bible. It's a teaching from pagan origins and is not a truth in the Bible.

Originally posted by galveston75
That theory of a burning hell does not exist in the Bible. It's a teaching from pagan origins and is not a truth in the Bible.

Then what you're saying is Jesus is a liar.

Originally posted by galveston75
That theory of a burning hell does not exist in the Bible. It's a teaching from pagan origins and is not a truth in the Bible.

Tell RJHinds that 🙂

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Yes - if you truly believe in an after-life, a heaven, a hell, judgement et c. then of course you must do what you feel is best for yourself.

My god I'm agreeing with you!

My reply was to do with non-believers. (being scared ...)

My opening post was just putting forward the scenario (equally likely as your beliefs) that god was quite random and w ...[text shortened]... look no different then it does now .... so how does anyone know which one of those gods we got?

On the point of 'how would anyone know...' I recently saw and just re-dug-up the link to a video
which has a great metaphor for the problem with believing stuff on faith.

YouTube&feature=player_detailpage#t=164s

that link goes to the relevant part as it's part of a much longer program.

For those watching your bandwidth the demonstration goes like this.

You have 3 jars.

Jar 1 contains existent dice. (Has loads of white dice in it, is heavier, and rattles when you move/shake it)

Jar 2 contains non-existent dice. (Appears totally empty)

Jar 3 contains existent Transcendent Supernatural dice. (Appears totally empty)


You start with the assumption that the Transcendent supernatural dice exist.

You then muddle the jars up and then try to separate the jars into jars that contains things that exist and jars that don't.

And you find you can't do it because there is no way of telling the jar with the 'existent' Transcendent Supernatural Dice from
the one with non-existent dice.

So the word existent has become meaningless.


In this context, as 'existent god' has exactly the same materiel characteristics as 'non-existent god' and thus are indistinguishable
from one another, for existent to have any meaning we have to say god is non-existent.


We can change this if evidence were ever to appear that allowed you to distinguish 'existent god' from 'non-existent god'.
But until then we can't claim god exists without rendering the term exists totally meaningless.
In which case you might as well be saying god is 'flahanderflaffle', it's just totally meaningless.

If god is indistinguishable from not existing (which he currently is) then he can't be said to exist.
And similarly the attributes of god can't be discerned if his very existence can't be ascertained.

Originally posted by josephw
Jesus rose from the dead. Remember?

No I don't actually remember. I wasn't there.

I know there is an account written somewhere in a book, by a group of 4 alchoholics: named St John, St Paul, St George and St Ringo.

They were short of a few bob, and they even believed when they drank water it was suddenly wine. I think nowadays it's termed as 'premature dementia'?

I believe in the words of a book created by 'apostles' as much as I believe the words of 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. After all, the fab 4 of both times made a fortune!

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
No I don't actually remember. I wasn't there.

I know there is an account written somewhere in a book, by a group of 4 alchoholics: named St John, St Paul, St George and St Ringo.

They were short of a few bob, and they even believed when they drank water it was suddenly wine. I think nowadays it's termed as 'premature dementia'?

I believe in the word ...[text shortened]... cy in the sky with diamonds'. After all, the fab 4 of both times made a fortune!

-m.

Start remembering, or else when you die you won't remember a thing. 😉

Originally posted by josephw
Then what you're saying is Jesus is a liar.

Nope. Where does Jesus talk about a burning hell?

Originally posted by googlefudge
Are you wading into pascals wager territory?


Anyhow going with your what if... [in italics]
[i]
God has made it clear (via the bible naturally) that he doesn't really give a damn what you do
as long as you believe in and worship him and repent for all your sins before you die.

You can live as good a life as it is possible to lead and not beli ...[text shortened]... s good a place as was possible.
And endeavoured to make it better for the next generation.

Isn't there something more enjoyable you could be doing in your
life than posting on this forum?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Yes - if you truly believe in an after-life, a heaven, a hell, judgement et c. then of course you must do what you feel is best for yourself.

My god I'm agreeing with you!

My reply was to do with non-believers. (being scared ...)

My opening post was just putting forward the scenario (equally likely as your beliefs) that god was quite random and w ...[text shortened]... look no different then it does now .... so how does anyone know which one of those gods we got?

I can't speak for all Christians, but personally I do fear the Almighty God.
But I also believe He loves me.

P.S. Read the Holy Bible and pay close attention to fulfilled prophecies.
Read some commentaries about these prophecies and how they were
fulfilled. Then make up your mind to believe or not after obtaining as
much knowledge on the subject as you can.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Tell RJHinds that 🙂

I have heard that plenty times before.

Originally posted by mikelom
No I don't actually remember. I wasn't there.

I know there is an account written somewhere in a book, by a group of 4 alchoholics: named St John, St Paul, St George and St Ringo.

They were short of a few bob, and they even believed when they drank water it was suddenly wine. I think nowadays it's termed as 'premature dementia'?

I believe in the word cy in the sky with diamonds'. After all, the fab 4 of both times made a fortune!

-m.

I don't remember this St Ringo. Can you give a reference in the Holy Bible
please?

P.S. I think you mean St Matthew instead of St George.