@eladarsaid If you are going to dismiss the spiritual foundation of the Christian beliefs as foolishness, then all you can do is define it from your point of view.
You have spent a few days dismissing the five core Christian beliefs as "fluff", "gibberish" and "meaningless". You are entitled to talk about things from your point of view, of course, but just about every Christian I have met would dismiss your no-reference-to-Christ definition of "a Christian" as "foolishness".
@petewxyzsaid to Eladar
suppose I am trying not to have a point of view. Tell me more about why you say that?
When Eladar says things like... "Trying to understand Christians from your point of view is a fool's errand" or words to the effect of "You are too ignorant to understand so I am not going to try to explain in it to because it's a waste of time"... he is simply running away from you.
@fmfsaid You have spent a few days dismissing the five core Christian beliefs as "fluff", "gibberish" and "meaningless". You are entitled to talk about things from your point of view, of course, but just about every Christian I have met would dismiss your no-reference-to-Christ definition of "a Christian" as "foolishness".
Yes how you define a Christian is worthless fluff. Although many would agree, it just means they are not actually Christian or simply immature.
@eladarsaid Yes how you define a Christian is worthless fluff. Although many would agree, it just means they are not actually Christian or simply immature.
I listed the core Christian beliefs. My definition placed beliefs ~ about Jesus dying and rising from the dead to save mankind from its "sins" ~ front and centre, and so differentiating Christians from other followers of the Abrahamic God.
You, on the other hand, have described the words of the Gospels as "meaningless" and, in your own personal bizarro definition, Jesus Christ didn't even get a mention.
And here you are deciding who is and isn't "actually Christian" and you refuse to say whether or not you yourself are a Christian or even whether you see yourself as a Christian!
@eladarsaid Yes how you define a Christian is worthless fluff.
Here it is again:
"A Christian is defined by his or her beliefs with regard to the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A Christian believes that God sent his son Jesus, the messiah, to save the world. A Christian believes that Jesus was crucified and died in order to offer the forgiveness of sins and the opportunity for "salvation". A Christian believes that Jesus rose from the dead and later ascended to heaven. A Christian believes these things and endeavours to obey God's commandments, including those that Jesus is believed to have stipulated while he was alive, and demonstrate, by doing good works, that their faith is not dead."
Okay, I haven't clicked reply to anybody because I am replying to the experience of being in this thread. When I reflected on @Eladar's replies, I found the memory of the Buddhist monk who took a gun out of his tunic and shot the Sri Lankan Prime Minister in the mid 80s. The thought was that wearing the uniform of religion can simply be a disguise. So on the one hand I was proving @Eladar right since I had obviously held that memory ready for over 30 years (although it did have significance for me as a memory for personal reasons too), but on the other hand my better nature and curiosity was also saying you can hardly say that person represented all Buddhist monks.
"A Christian is defined by his or her beliefs with regard to the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A Christian believes that God sent his son Jesus, the messiah, to save the world. A Christian believes that Jesus was crucified and died in order to offer the forgiveness of sins and the opportunity for "salvation". A Christian believes that Jesu ...[text shortened]... stipulated while he was alive, and demonstrate, by doing good works, that their faith is not dead."
The only beef I have with this definition is the "air quotes" around the word salvation. I believe that Jesus' death on the cross offered the opportunity for salvation, not "salvation". You may not believe it, but the Christian does. Christians don't treat salvation as something not real, and so in order to be a real definition of what a Christian believes, you should drop the insinuation that salvation is not real.
@petewxyzsaid Okay, I haven't clicked reply to anybody because I am replying to the experience of being in this thread. When I reflected on @Eladar's replies, I found the memory of the Buddhist monk who took a gun out of his tunic and shot the Sri Lankan Prime Minister in the mid 80s. The thought was that wearing the uniform of religion can simply be a disguise. So on the one hand I was p ...[text shortened]... nature and curiosity was also saying you can hardly say that person represented all Buddhist monks.
As far as followers of Jesus Christ go, including those in this community, I think Eladar provides a narcissistic, self-sanctified, misanthropic persona that is beyond parody.
@suziannesaid The only beef I have with this definition is the "air quotes" around the word salvation.
Yes. The quotation marks mean that, although I am typing and using the words "sin" and "salvation" in order to have a go at fashioning a definition, I do not myself think that "sin" and "salvation" are a real things except in the minds of Christians. I use quotation marks around "Hell" for the same reason.
@suziannesaid Christians don't treat salvation as something not real, and so in order to be a real definition of what a Christian believes, you should drop the insinuation that salvation is not real.
I am not making any insinuation that "sin" and "salvation" are not real. I am being absolutely crystal clear and candid about not believing that they are real. Hence the quotation marks in my post ~ which, like all my posts, reflects my perspective.
If you want to adopt and endorse my words, may I suggest you copy-paste them, remove the quotation marks, and then assert that you believe everything stated in my descriptions of those five core beliefs. Just an idea.
@fmfsaid As far as followers of Jesus Christ go, including those in this community, I think Eladar provides a narcissistic, self-sanctified, misanthropic persona that is beyond parody.
Eladar has been waxing lyrical over in the Debates forum about how the deaths of 1 million US citizens from Covid-19 would be, and i quote, 'no big deal'. A striking comment to make from any person, let alone someone who professes to be a Christian.
@proper-knobsaid How many deaths would be a big deal? I'm curious, how much suffering has to occur before your Christian morals, for want of a better word, kick in.
How many deaths would be a big deal? How about black death percentages of the population? You know, back during the Middle Ages.
01 Apr '20 01:35
What is a Christian?
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