What is a god?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
What makes them gods?
Why can we use that term for certain mythical creations?

As I said in my first post, it is either that they have a certain status due to their abilities, or they have status due to your respect for them. Though generally I would say that at a minimum a god has power over other sentient entities (either willing or unwilling) Thus a powerful Wizard would not be a god unless he has followers/slaves.

When you call a pop star a god or goddess you are referring to the fact that you worship them.

Originally posted by twhitehead
As I said in my first post, it is either that they have a certain status due to their abilities, or they have status due to your respect for them. Though generally I would say that at a minimum a god has power over other sentient entities (either willing or unwilling) Thus a powerful Wizard would not be a god unless he has followers/slaves.

When you call a pop star a god or goddess you are referring to the fact that you worship them.

Does Zeus have any followers?
We can agree that Zeus is a god can we not?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Isnt Thor a god? Isnt his brother?

What makes them gods?
Why can we use that term for certain mythical creations?

mythical creations like Cthulu?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Putting aside the questions of are there gods? , is there a god? , there is only ONE God etc.

What are the pre-requisites for a god (real or imagined)?

Alexander the Great was accepted seriously as a god in his lifetime. This was not taken to imply that he had created anything or even written an infallible book. Polytheism has always assigned diverse roles to diverse gods and it is not the case that even Zeus was a creator god - he actually supplanted an earlier ruler as I recall. Christianity is said to have been successful in converting pagans - or at least securing their compliance - because it simply superimposed a vast panoply of angels and demons and saints and even an option of ancestor worship within its cosmology.

Even the Egyptians had developed the notion of one superior god and possibly one true, creator god, usually associated with the Sun. The Jews in most of the Old Testament were actually polytheists. Jahweh was worshipped alongside their separate, tribal gods and they were not averse to worshipping others as well. It was more about having a unifying god, Jahweh, to bring the tribes together in an alliance against external enemies. So if you like, this god of the alliance was more powerful than the separate tribal gods. When the tribes lost their unity they became more vulnerable. There were similar alliance gods in other societies of the period.

Monotheism developed alongside the growth of Hellenism, especially following the dramatic conquests of the region by Alexander the Great. This is not to say that the Greeks invented it. But there was no tradition of thinking through the philosophical implications of monotheism until Greek philosophy provided the thinking tools for the job and it became a necessity, after the Greeks but also in debate with the Greeks, to give a reasoned account of one's belief system. To a large extent the Greeks had the better of the arguments! Certainly, the theoretical underpinning of concepts of God became those effectively of the philosopher Plato. So God becomes a very abstract concept of perfection and as a result is not capable of being imagined in tangible ways. The reason God is considered perfectly just, good, powerful, and every other perfectly you care to add is therefore circular reasoning at its best. There must be an absolute, we will name that absolute God, and the attributes of God will be that He is the absolute. Arguably, monotheism is the worship of an abstract concept. (Is God perfectly circular?)

The early Church came close to making Plato and Aristotle into saints but baulked at the incongruities involved.

Notice that India and China each had relatively (not at all totally) independent philosophical traditions of great sophistication and came to different conclusions. The monotheist religions not only share their allegiance to the Old Testament, but also their debt to the Greeks.

it has to be able to create everything without leaving any evidence of itself behind.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
it has to be able to create everything without leaving any evidence of itself behind.

cute but not what I was after.

what about minor deities who havent created anything?

and as Finnegan pointed out Zeus didnt create the Universe. (Titans?)

Originally posted by finnegan
Christianity is said to have been successful in converting pagans - or at least securing their compliance - because it simply superimposed a vast panoply of angels and demons and saints and even an option of ancestor worship within its cosmology.

You ruined my plot! This was what i was planning on raising.

I wanted a general definition of a god - one that fitted them all - then ask

Why aren't Archangels, Angels, Saints, Seraphim and Cherubim gods?
Why do we not class Satan as a god?

Isn't this just semantics? Monotheism doesnt exist!!!


PS just for laughs - http://www.whyangels.com/seraphim_cherubim_creatures.html

Originally posted by finnegan

I cannot describe the Personality of Godhead [Sri Krishna Bhagavan] in full here in this forum because it would take tens of thousands of words............

Maybe if you split it over a number of posts that would do the trick. I always think if it takes more words to get something said then people can choose to read it or not. Maybe that's ...[text shortened]... ads. [Sighs...]

It just seems a shame, when you apparently have the answer, not to share it.

I have given a starting point.

For thoses who are sincere and want to know more they can purchase the 18 volume Srimad Bhagavatam by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and they can read at their leisure.

There are numerous additional books presenting transcendental knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as well.

These transcendental books can be purchased at the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust or any Hare Krsna Temple in most capital cities.........and its a good idea that if you make a connection with someone who knows these literatures [at the point of purchase] then you will have someone to answer the many questions that will arise as you read.

I will not post up in this forum 18 volumes.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Does Zeus have any followers?
We can agree that Zeus is a god can we not?

When I highlight "Zeus" in my browser it gives the following definition:

Zeus was the protector and ruler of humankind, the dispenser of good and evil, and the god of atmospheric phenomena

So I would say that even if he had no followers, he did have significant control over humans. Note also the usage of 'god' in that definition, he was the 'god of atmospheric phenomena'. This suggests that control of some aspect of nature also warrants the title 'god'.

Originally posted by Dasa
I have given a starting point.

For thoses who are sincere and want to know more they can purchase the 18 volume Srimad Bhagavatam by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and they can read at their leisure...
I will not post up in this forum 18 volumes.

For thoses who are sincere and want to know more they can purchase the 18 volume Srimad Bhagavatam ... and they can read at their leisure.

Why does this sound like a scam? Buy my book and it will tell you how to get rich. Book: "To get rich, publish a book called buy my book and it will tell you..."

Originally posted by finnegan

For thoses who are sincere and want to know more they can [b]purchase the 18 volume Srimad Bhagavatam ... and they can read at their leisure.

Why does this sound like a scam? Buy my book and it will tell you how to get rich. Book: "To get rich, publish a book called buy my book and it will tell you..."[/b]

Depending on the price, might be cheap toilet paper?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
You ruined my plot! This was what i was planning on raising.

I wanted a general definition of a god - one that fitted them all - then ask

[b]Why aren't Archangels, Angels, Saints, Seraphim and Cherubim gods?
Why do we not class Satan as a god?

Isn't this just semantics? Monotheism doesnt exist!!!


PS just for laughs - http://www.whyangels.com/seraphim_cherubim_creatures.html[/b]

Oh too any people get it wrong with angels and your link is a helpful corrective. For example:

When most people think of Cherubs they'll think of pudgy little baby-like creatures, with two little wings, who are rather cute. However, that's not how the Bible describes them! Cherubs (the correct pural is Cherubim) are described in two books of the Bible, Genesis and Ezekiel (a Jewish prophet).

In Genesis they guard the Garden of Eden, following Adam and Eve's banishment from the Garden, and are described holding flaming swords 2.

The prophet Ezekiel has a vivid vision of heaven where he sees many angelic beings. His description of the Cherubim is powerful – almost frightening 3.

Not your average cute little angel! These are powerful heavenly beings with four faces and four wings.

So now no serious discussion of this topic will use the unscientific "cherubs" or neglect to illustrate them with four faces and the correct number of wings.

Originally posted by nook7
Depending on the price, might be cheap toilet paper?

Oh let's not get into burning and destroying books. A book's a book.

Originally posted by finnegan
Oh let's not get into burning and destroying books. A book's a book.

True true.

Originally posted by finnegan
"cherubs" ... with four faces and the correct number of wings.

If you upset a cherub do they just turn the other cheek?
and the other, and the other, and the other, and ...