What is it to be human?

@fmf said
It was "clarified" by him in a 26 page thread. I think it is a good idea to bring up this kind of thing if it helps us to discuss "What is it to be human?"

I don't know his position.

He isn't here.

And you are presenting it like he is so negative.

The only other person who actively invokes Romans is another poster who also seems to viscerally hate him.

I don't think it's relevant as you think unless you divorce it from this "oh, geeZ, look at ROMANS!" feel.

@philokalia said
I don't know his position.

I have summarized it for you.

@kellyjay said
Do you ever tire of your obsession of asking someone about someone else' beliefs or statements?

The someone else here is Pope John Paul II in 1986.

"A culture which rejects God cannot be considered fully human, because it excludes from its vision the One who has created man in his own image and likeness, has redeemed him through the work of Christ, and has consecrated him with the anointing of the Holy Spirit.”

How does that line up with your view?

@philokalia said
Does a rock have will and agency?

Would you say that a rock in Italy, a rock in Greece, and a rock in Brazil, along with a rock at the bottom of a pond in Tibet all have agency..?

I am guessing you would say no.

So why does the "Cosmos" have agency because humans have agency, but there is, say, no collective agency for disjoined rocks by virtue of being rocks..?

I'll leave that as a reflection exercise.

@fmf said
The someone else here is Pope John Paul II in 1986.

"A culture which rejects God cannot be considered fully human, because it excludes from its vision the One who has created man in his own image and likeness, has redeemed him through the work of Christ, and has consecrated him with the anointing of the Holy Spirit.”

How does that line up with your view?

My views are not important, the view or stance you should be concern about is the truth of the matter, not what I, or anyone else thinks about something. Truth is what happens when our views line up with reality, when they don't, they don't no matter what the numbers are of people who agree, or how passionately they believe in what they do.

@fmf said
I have summarized it for you.

Actually you only told him your version of his views.

@kellyjay said
Actually you only told him your version of his views.

It was accurate. And it was enough for this debate, anyway. You can even deal with my summary as a hypothetical and discuss it. Whatever you want. It's got to be better than just dodging the ideas that are on the table.

@kellyjay said
My views are not important, the view or stance you should be concern about is the truth of the matter, not what I, or anyone else thinks about something.

But this is a debate and discussion forum and I am asking you about your view. You share what you think. I share what I think. Someone else shares what they think. Sometimes we agree. Sometimes we don't agree. Debate and discussion.

@kellyjay said
Truth is what happens when our views line up with reality, when they don't, they don't no matter what the numbers are of people who agree, or how passionately they believe in what they do.

How does your view line up with Pope John Paul II's view and how do these two views - or perhaps the common view you share with him - "line up with reality"?

@fmf said
How does your view line up with Pope John Paul II's view and how do these two views - or perhaps the common view you share with him - "line up with reality"?

Maybe I missed it or maybe you didn't state it...

But I'm curious.

What does being human mean to you?

@philokalia said
Maybe I missed it or maybe you didn't state it...

But I'm curious.

What does being human mean to you?

You missed it. On this thread. Go back and read it. It shall be a test of your curiosity.

@kellyjay said
What is your view of humanity?

I responded directly and promptly to your question but you have blanked it out. Oh well. Here's something relevant to our topic.

This is from an interview on BBC Radio 4 in 2009 with Cardinal Murphy O’Connor who was head of the Catholic Church in the UK at that time:

Interviewer: “A lot of church leaders speaking on national matters sound rather defensive but you’ve gone on the attack because you’ve talked about secularists having an ‘impoverished understanding of what it is to be human.’ They might find that quite offensive, mightn’t they?”

Cardinal: “I think what I said was true, of course, whether a person is atheist or any other…there is in fact, in my view, something not totally human if they leave out the transcendent. If they leave out an aspect of what I believe everyone was made for, which is, uh, a search for transcendent meaning, we call it God. Now if you say that has no place, then I feel that it is a diminishment of what it is to be a human because to be human in the sense I believe humanity is directed because made by God, I think if you leave that out then you are not fully human.”

Does this definition of "not fully human" resonate with anyone here?

@kellyjay said
My views are not important,

Please do not post any more of your views.