What is it to be human?

@kellyjay said
Yes, I'll get back to that.

You asked me on page 1 'What is your view of humanity?'

@fmf said
You asked me on page 1 'What is your view of humanity?'

Yes, I'll get to it when I get to it.

@kellyjay said
Yes, I'll get to it when I get to it.

It was 17 pages ago. Odd that.

@fmf said
It was 17 pages ago. Odd that.

And?

@fmf said
Well, let's put it to you another way.

As a Christian, do you make a distinction between being "human" on one hand and being "fully human" on the other?

Do you believe that being "fully human" is dependent on having "a relationship" with the Christian God?

@fmf said
It seems to have traction in the Catholic church at least.

Man is by nature and vocation a religious being. Coming from God, going toward God, man lives a fully human life only if he freely lives by his bond with God.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c1.htm

My task is not to speak in purely human terms about merely human values, but in spiritual terms about spiritual values, which are ultimately what make us fully human. Homily by John Paul II 1995

@fmf said
Well, let's put it to you another way.

As a Christian, do you make a distinction between being "human" on one hand and being "fully human" on the other?

Do you believe that being "fully human" is dependent on having "a relationship" with the Christian God?

No, I don't believe that ...

But I think there's some line of thought where you could say that man is composed of both the horizontal access of socialization with others and the vertical access in regards to his relationship with God and animals and the earth.

But, the idea that someone forfeits humanity by not engaging positively with God would be going too far. I've heard a Catholic father talk about it in this way and I think I've heard the cross spoken of as a symbol in that way as well.

Who knows if Grampy Bobby went too far, and whether he was trolled into going too far. I don't know.

@philokalia said
Who knows if Grampy Bobby went too far, and whether he was trolled into going too far. I don't know.

No, we just had a 2-3 message exchange about it, that was all.

@philokalia said
The overwhelming majority of Christians believe in a threshold of culpability based off of Luke 12:47.

What do you think about this doctrine?

The proponents of torturer god ideology here in this community have not argued it. Does it get - for example - the world's 1,800,000,000 Muslims and 1,100,000,000 Hindus off the hook, according to your beliefs, with regard to being "tormented in burning flames" for eternity?

@fmf said
I am reminded of one of the appaling 'gems' that Romans1009 came out with soon after he arrived here - and it was met with not one word of dissent from his fellow Christians, which means what it means.

He cited caring for his sick mother as one of his two Christian 'good works' in life* [the other one was giving money to charity] but he didn't 'claim' these 'good works' as bei ...[text shortened]... y impervious to the imperative conveyed by 1 Timothy 5:8, which Ghost of a Duke confronted him with,

I think it isn't a very good idea to bring up this sort of post because he isn't here to clarify what was meant by it.

The relationship between faith and works is complicated and no one serious would deny that non-Christians are capable of good works.

Would you care to rephrase this all so it is relevant to every poster here and just not another reference to Romans?

I know he was an amazing and high impact poster but this does get a bit tedious.

@fmf said
The proponents of torturer god ideology here in this community have not argued it. Does it get - for example - the world's 1,800,000,000 Muslims and 1,100,000,000 Hindus off the hook, according to your beliefs, with regard to being "tormented in burning flames" for eternity?

No, as it was brought up earlier, the parable in Luke 12:48 handles this well.

I think you have a major issue with how you understand and interpret hell.

You need to actually think along the lines of common and well advanced beliefs and not cherry pick the most upsetting as possible interpretation.

@philokalia said
I think it isn't a very good idea to bring up this sort of post because he isn't here to clarify what was meant by it.

It was "clarified" by him in a 26 page thread. I think it is a good idea to bring up this kind of thing if it helps us to discuss "What is it to be human?"

@philokalia said
You need to actually think along the lines of common and well advanced beliefs and not cherry pick the most upsetting as possible interpretation.

I am simply discussing beliefs and perspectives with members of this community.

@philokalia said
No, as it was brought up earlier, the parable in Luke 12:48 handles this well.

How does Luke 12:48 "handle" the world's 1,800,000,000 Muslims and 1,100,000,000 Hindus when it comes to their supposed fate?

@philokalia said
The relationship between faith and works is complicated and no one serious would deny that non-Christians are capable of good works.

Would you care to rephrase this all so it is relevant to every poster here and just not another reference to Romans?

What do you think of his beliefs on these issues of the supposed "indwelling Holy Spirit" and 'good works'?