1. SubscriberPianoman1
    Nil desperandum
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    10 Dec '13 11:45
    As a non-believer I Would welcome views.

    1) Do you have to believe that Christ was the Son of God?
    2) Do you have to believe in the Immaculate Conception, Resurrection and Asumption?
    3) Do you have to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?
    4) Do you have to believe in eternal Hell fire?
    5) Do you have to believe in Genesis? (Creation, Noah etc)
    6) Do you have to believe the Universe is less than 10,000 years old?
    7) Do you have to believe that Christ was the best and wisest of men? (wiser than Socrates, Buddha etc)
    8) Do you have to go to church regularly?
    9) Do you have to give service to the community?
    10) Do you have to live as Christ, i.e. frugally, judiciously and lovingly?
  2. Joined
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    10 Dec '13 11:56
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    As a non-believer I Would welcome views.

    1) Do you have to believe that Christ was the Son of God?
    2) Do you have to believe in the Immaculate Conception, Resurrection and Asumption?
    3) Do you have to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?
    4) Do you have to believe in eternal Hell fire?
    5) Do you have to believe in Genesis? (Creation, Noah et ...[text shortened]... e to the community?
    10) Do you have to live as Christ, i.e. frugally, judiciously and lovingly?
    just in a creator god, That's it. if you can just believe in that you're in, next time you eat a apple think about what i said?
  3. SubscriberPianoman1
    Nil desperandum
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    10 Dec '13 12:10
    Originally posted by tim88
    just in a creator god, That's it. if you can just believe in that you're in, next time you eat a apple think about what i said?
    So being a Christian is the same as a Muslim or Hindu? They both believe in creator Gods!
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    10 Dec '13 12:144 edits
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    So being a Christian is the same as a Muslim or Hindu? They both believe in creator Gods!
    Hmmm not sure. i was brought up catholic sorry

    a catholic beliefs thst the virgin mary is a saint but a christian dose not. a christian only prays to god. that's the difference between catholic & christian.
  5. Joined
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    10 Dec '13 12:27
    That went well.
  6. Joined
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    10 Dec '13 12:311 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    That went well.
    nvm
  7. Joined
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    10 Dec '13 12:35
    Originally posted by divegeester
    That went well.
    sorry divegeester i thought it was googlefage silly me 🙂
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    10 Dec '13 12:36
    Spam is spam.

    Besides, it wasn't spam.
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    10 Dec '13 13:091 edit
    Originally posted by tim88
    just in a creator god, That's it. if you can just believe in that you're in, next time you eat a apple think about what i said?
    As mentioned, that would mean Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs(?) would count as Christian. And not forgetting the Pastafarians of course.

    Surely to be Christian, you must have some sort of view on the existence and 'holyness' of a character called Christ? The clue is in the name!

    --- Penguin
  10. Territories Unknown
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    10 Dec '13 13:15
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    As a non-believer I Would welcome views.

    1) Do you have to believe that Christ was the Son of God?
    2) Do you have to believe in the Immaculate Conception, Resurrection and Asumption?
    3) Do you have to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?
    4) Do you have to believe in eternal Hell fire?
    5) Do you have to believe in Genesis? (Creation, Noah et ...[text shortened]... e to the community?
    10) Do you have to live as Christ, i.e. frugally, judiciously and lovingly?
    I could answer your questions 1-10 individually, but to stave off repetition, let me give you the principles of the issue and see if they resolve your dilemma.

    Although what a person holds as truth is very critical to whatever progress is to be made, I've not seen a single passage of Scripture that commands man to have perfect theology in order to be saved.
    Such a situation flies in the face of a grace-oriented relationship in the first place, so I think it can be eliminated on that basis alone.

    So it really comes down to what must a man do to be saved? The Bible has been exceedingly clear on this point, thankfully, even if the application is sometimes muddled by well meaning folks.

    God has simply asked for an exchange. Instead of standing before Him on the merits of our own work, He has found a way to transfer His value to us... as long as we are willing to exchange our work for the work done on the Cross by the Lord Jesus Christ.

    One can certainly make the argument how a person must first believe in the efficacy of that work done by Him, but I don't know that a person really is required to understand all aspects of His Personage in order to be willing to accept His work in exchange for our own.

    I won't get into the intricate details of that 'abbreviated' belief versus the ascension to a more complete understanding of the Person and Nature of the Lord Jesus Christ, but the Bible is pretty clear that many folks had no idea Who He was while here and yet became Christians, nonetheless.

    Suffice to extend the same latitude to any interested party today, is my general rule.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Dec '13 15:11
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    As a non-believer I Would welcome views.

    1) Do you have to believe that Christ was the Son of God?
    2) Do you have to believe in the Immaculate Conception, Resurrection and Asumption?
    3) Do you have to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?
    4) Do you have to believe in eternal Hell fire?
    5) Do you have to believe in Genesis? (Creation, Noah et ...[text shortened]... e to the community?
    10) Do you have to live as Christ, i.e. frugally, judiciously and lovingly?
    Christ and the Apostles answered your question in a few pretty clear statements. So unlike Freaky and a few other misguided socalled Christians, I will just quote and you can decide:

    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28 KJV)

    James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


    A Christian by Christ definition is to believe in and to follow Him, ie follow His example and commandments. I can give dozens where Christ said to follow him. So your #s 1, 9 & 10 comes closest to what Christ said.

    I would however note that follower of Christ and a Christian by modern definitions are often polar opposites since Christians preach that following Christ is actually wrong and an insult to Christ who died so that they could sin without consequences.
  12. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    10 Dec '13 15:49
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    As a non-believer I Would welcome views.

    1) Do you have to believe that Christ was the Son of God?
    2) Do you have to believe in the Immaculate Conception, Resurrection and Asumption?
    3) Do you have to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?
    4) Do you have to believe in eternal Hell fire?
    5) Do you have to believe in Genesis? (Creation, Noah et ...[text shortened]... e to the community?
    10) Do you have to live as Christ, i.e. frugally, judiciously and lovingly?
    "What is meant by being a Christian?" -Pianoman1

    What is meant by being a human being? What was required for the viable fetus Pianoman1 to become the human being Pianoman1? One inhale; and one exhale. Result: Pianoman1 came crying and kicking onto the stage of humanity. To become a Christian, the inhale is one sentence of biblical truth: "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved." (Acts 16:31a) The exhale: one private decision. To simply tell God the Father you are believing in Jesus Christ. In that very moment, your eternal future will be assured. The moment you decide to believe in Christ, you have eternal life; you share an eternal relationship with God; you will live forever with Him in heaven. Faith alone in Christ alone is salvation. The choice is yours.

    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name [person] of the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    10 Dec '13 20:32
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I would however note that follower of Christ and a Christian by modern definitions are often polar opposites since Christians preach that following Christ is actually wrong and an insult to Christ who died so that they could sin without consequences.
    Would you just stop it?

    You assume much with your mocking. And no, that's not quite Christ-like. I don't remember any scripture where Jesus says "Be thou holier-than-everyone-else, due to your own dogma that you elevate above all others, including other commandments I made", and certainly nothing that sounds remotely like "I'm right, you're wrong, neener, neener". Funny, though, I do remember something about "...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..."
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    10 Dec '13 22:19
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Would you just stop it?

    You assume much with your mocking. And no, that's not quite Christ-like. I don't remember any scripture where Jesus says "Be thou holier-than-everyone-else, due to your own dogma that you elevate above all others, including other commandments I made", and certainly nothing that sounds remotely like "I'm right, you're wrong, neen ...[text shortened]... do remember something about "...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..."
    And yet you support capital punishment anyway...

    Could you throw that first stone?
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Dec '13 00:443 edits
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    And yet you support capital punishment anyway...

    Could you throw that first stone?
    These are the latter days, my friend.

    There was no one remotely like, say, Charles Manson back in Jesus' time.

    Maybe Jesus would have driven the demons out of him.


    BTW, being a pompous ass is a little different than being a mass murderer, and vice versa.

    And no, I am not without sin. What was your point again?

    MY point is that he makes it his business to throw stones at Christians, and he's not without sin, either. What does that have to do with capital punishment?
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