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Originally posted by SuzianneWell it has to do with capital punishment because the origin of the phrase,
These are the latter days, my friend.
There was no one remotely like, say, Charles Manson back in Jesus' time.
Maybe Jesus would have driven the demons out of him.
BTW, being a pompous ass is a little different than being a mass murderer, and vice versa.
And no, I am not without sin. What was your point again?
MY point is that he makes it ...[text shortened]... hristians, and he's not without sin, either. What does that have to do with capital punishment?
the bible reference YOU quoted... Is about capital punishment.
And people not executing someone unless they themselves were without sin.
Hence the question.
And no these are not latter days, there has never been a better time to be a
human being on Earth than the present day.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThank you. Not quite sure what you mean by "the exchange" Christ requires of us. In essence, then, to be a Christian, in your view, is to save yourself from eternal hell fire by good works?
I could answer your questions 1-10 individually, but to stave off repetition, let me give you the principles of the issue and see if they resolve your dilemma.
Although what a person holds as truth is very critical to whatever progress is to be made, I've not seen a single passage of Scripture that commands man to have perfect theology in order to be ...[text shortened]... eless.
Suffice to extend the same latitude to any interested party today, is my general rule.
Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ and the Apostles answered your question in a few pretty clear statements. So unlike Freaky and a few other misguided socalled Christians, I will just quote and you can decide:
[i]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my han ...[text shortened]... is actually wrong and an insult to Christ who died so that they could sin without consequences.
A Christian by Christ definition is to believe in and to follow Him, ie follow His example and commandments
Was Jesus the best of men to follow? Good, I agree, but the best role model?
How about the fig tree he blasted because it had no fruit
How about the poor Gadarene swine, who had harmed no one?
How about his cursing people as vipers and serpents if they didn't believe in him?
How about the wailing and gnashing of teeth which he rather relished for non believers?
These all sound rather poor examples of "best practice"!
3 edits
Originally posted by Pianoman1A Christian is one who adopts and applies the teachings of Christ.
As a non-believer I Would welcome views.
1) Do you have to believe that Christ was the Son of God?
2) Do you have to believe in the Immaculate Conception, Resurrection and Asumption?
3) Do you have to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?
4) Do you have to believe in eternal Hell fire?
5) Do you have to believe in Genesis? (Creation, Noah et ...[text shortened]... e to the community?
10) Do you have to live as Christ, i.e. frugally, judiciously and lovingly?
1.yes
2.yes, yes, no, the assumption is unscriptural, 'flesh and blood cannot inherit Gods Kingdom'.
3.power of the Holy spirit, not sure what that means?
4. No hell-fire is a pagan and non-scriptural reaching, its entirely incongruous that a God of love and justice would torture persons eternally while being prone to aberration and sin.
5. Yes, Christ, Paul , Peter and other gospel writers held that the Genesis account was literal and taught others likewise.
6. no, there is no reason to assume that the term day is a literal 24 hour period
7. No i don't think you have to believe it
8. Its encouraged that you gather together with other Christians for encouragement , there is no rule, merely a recommendation by Paul to do so.
9. Yes, every Christian is charged with teaching the gospel to others, Paul gives many sound and unassailable arguments for this.
10. There is no rule, you are encouraged to live simply, being content with , 'sustenance and covering'.
Originally posted by Pianoman1Yes he is the best role model and example,A Christian by Christ definition is to believe in and to follow Him, ie follow His example and commandments
Was Jesus the best of men to follow? Good, I agree, but the best role model?
How about the fig tree he blasted because it had no fruit
How about the poor Gadarene swine, who had harmed no one?
How about his cursing people as ...[text shortened]... e rather relished for non believers?
These all sound rather poor examples of "best practice"!
1. the fig tree was used as an illustration
2. I admit that its hard to justify killing the swine
3. He termed the Pharisees as offspring of vipers and serpents, not because they did not believe in him, but because they were plotting to kill him as their forefathers had done to other prophets.
4. Gashing of teeth etc was not reserved for non believers, it was for those who professed to be Christians but were counterfeit.
Originally posted by Pianoman1I would agree with RCs responses to your questions, and add the following:A Christian by Christ definition is to believe in and to follow Him, ie follow His example and commandments
Was Jesus the best of men to follow? Good, I agree, but the best role model?
How about the fig tree he blasted because it had no fruit
How about the poor Gadarene swine, who had harmed no one?
How about his cursing people as ...[text shortened]... e rather relished for non believers?
These all sound rather poor examples of "best practice"!
The life of Christ represents the ideal which all Christians should emulate. Many of the worlds great peacemakers and charity workers, learned from His example.
The thing about the Pharisees is that they were very evil and their offences included much more that just trying to Kill Christ. In Matt 23 there is a very long list of what they did wrong. Christ warns His followers that
Matt 5:20 .. except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
That is plain and simple .. no eternal life if your righteousness does not exceed the Scribes and Pharisees. The evil and crookedness of these people were clearly spelt out in Matt 23. Many of these offences are now rampant among Christian churches.
Originally posted by Pianoman1The exchange means to let go of what I hold valuable and cling to what He calls valuable. Instead of standing before Him and saying, in essence, "here is my body of work--- all that was done from shriek to shriek-- what do You think?" He offers an exchange of His righteousness to replace mine.
Thank you. Not quite sure what you mean by "the exchange" Christ requires of us. In essence, then, to be a Christian, in your view, is to save yourself from eternal hell fire by good works?
I don't need to worry whether He accepts the work; I already know that He does: it's His perfection He sees standing before Him when He looks at Christ in me.
I'm guaranteed to find favor because I've exchanged my crap for His gold.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThe amount of crap you write and believe in, if you exchange it for gold you will be a billionaire. 😀
The exchange means to let go of what I hold valuable and cling to what He calls valuable. Instead of standing before Him and saying, in essence, "here is my body of work--- all that was done from shriek to shriek-- what do You think?" He offers an exchange of His righteousness to replace mine.
I don't need to worry whether He accepts the work; I already ...[text shortened]... ooks at Christ in me.
I'm guaranteed to find favor because I've exchanged my crap for His gold.
Originally posted by Rajk999That's cute, sweetie.
The amount of crap you write and believe in, if you exchange it for gold you will be a billionaire. 😀
I exchanged it for something worth far more than gold, and my value is beyond the currency of this world.
What have you got to show for yourself, besides a surly disposition and penchant for putting your foot in your mouth?
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI have provided references for everything I write showing that its the Bible speaking. You on the other hand have not provided any supporting references. I think everyone knows what to infer from that.
That's cute, sweetie.
I exchanged it for something worth far more than gold, and my value is beyond the currency of this world.
What have you got to show for yourself, besides a surly disposition and penchant for putting your foot in your mouth?
1 edit
Originally posted by Pianoman11-8) No.
As a non-believer I Would welcome views.
1) Do you have to believe that Christ was the Son of God?
2) Do you have to believe in the Immaculate Conception, Resurrection and Asumption?
3) Do you have to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit?
4) Do you have to believe in eternal Hell fire?
5) Do you have to believe in Genesis? (Creation, Noah et ...[text shortened]... e to the community?
10) Do you have to live as Christ, i.e. frugally, judiciously and lovingly?
9-10) Yes. Well, at least you have to try to follow the teachings of Christ, as you interpret them.
My idea of "Christian" is wider than that of most Christians. I do not even think you have to be a theist to be a Christian.
Originally posted by SwissGambitI would agree with that. However I would say it differently. I think that a Christian is by definition a follower of Christ ie one who actually follows in word and in deed and not just claims to follow. There are many who Christ will accept as followers even though they may not even know of Him, but they live lives which are Christ-like. In the Kingdom of God people of all nations who live righteously will be accepted by Him.
1-8) No.
9-10) Yes. Well, at least you have to try to follow the teachings of Christ, as you interpret them.
My idea of "Christian" is wider than that of most Christians. I do not even think you have to be a theist to be a Christian.
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. (Acts 10:34-35 KJV)
Originally posted by Rajk999Well, I don't have any expectations of meeting Jesus at any time, so I'll stick with my 'try'. I think that word implies more than a mere claim.
I would agree with that. However I would say it differently. I think that a Christian is by definition a follower of Christ ie one who actually follows in word and in deed and not just claims to follow. There are many who Christ will accept as followers even though they may not even know of Him, but they live lives which are Christ-like. In the Kingdom of Go ...[text shortened]... on he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. (Acts 10:34-35 KJV)[/i]
Originally posted by SwissGambitInteresting! In essence, then, to be a Christian, in your view, is nothing more than being a good person. So there is no difference between a Muslim, a Hindu, a Sikh, a Jain or a Jew who was a good person offering himself to the community.
1-8) No.
9-10) Yes. Well, at least you have to try to follow the teachings of Christ, as you interpret them.
My idea of "Christian" is wider than that of most Christians. I do not even think you have to be a theist to be a Christian.
I am confused!!!
Originally posted by Pianoman1Confusion sucks; it's worse than ignorance. Truth is as unpopular in our lifetimes as it's ever been. There's little stomach for it. Why? Because people have lost their hunger for read meat and because as Mal Pancoast observed: "The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off." One reply to your thoughtful thread has garnered 5 Thumbs Down; 0 Up. Wonder why?
Interesting! In essence, then, to be a Christian, in your view, is nothing more than being a good person. So there is no difference between a Muslim, a Hindu, a Sikh, a Jain or a Jew who was a good person offering himself to the community.
I am confused!!!