09 Sep '06 23:30>
According to the Christian stanpoint, it seems to differ on what salvation is, how to get there, and when it happens. This thread was opened for this debate specifically. Thanks for your time brethren. Grace and peace to you all.
Originally posted by ngeisler88Hi ngeisler88 ,
I don't think baptism is needed for salvation. It is a wish not a commandment of God.
I Peter 3:21
"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
Also, both xpoferon and dj2becker haven't brought up the context of that da ...[text shortened]... wer for those verses proving the necessity of baptism for salvation, then I will post again.
Originally posted by xpoferensWhat about the taking up serpents and drinking poison part in verse 18?
Hi ngeisler88 ,
I think Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 are commandments. I humbly think those statments are clear.
As you quoted, I Peter 3:21 also states "baptism now saves you"; I think it's quite clear.
Os course if one gets baptized, but doesn't have faith/belief or repentance, one is not saved.
The Bible speaks about several conditions for salva ...[text shortened]... s in a serious danger, according to the Bible.
In the book of Acts, baptism is prevalent.
Originally posted by xpoferensYes, "baptism now saves you" but finish quoting what is says "NOT as the removal of dirt," referring to salvation, "but an appeal to God for good conscience," as fulfilling a wish, a guideline for us, not as fulfilling a commandment though necessary for salvation.
Hi ngeisler88 ,
I think Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 are commandments. I humbly think those statments are clear.
As you quoted, I Peter 3:21 also states "baptism now saves you"; I think it's quite clear.
Os course if one gets baptized, but doesn't have faith/belief or repentance, one is not saved.
The Bible speaks about several conditions for salva ...[text shortened]... s in a serious danger, according to the Bible.
In the book of Acts, baptism is prevalent.
Originally posted by ngeisler88Hi ngeisler88,
Yes, "baptism now saves you" but finish quoting what is says "NOT as the removal of dirt," referring to salvation, "but an appeal to God for good conscience," as fulfilling a wish, a guideline for us, not as fulfilling a commandment though necessary for salvation.
I agree with you on the rest of what you said after that. (I'm just not sure about the bo ...[text shortened]... "prevalent," not necessarily disputing it, I've just never studied it in that light.)
Originally posted by kirksey957Hi kirksey957,
What about the taking up serpents and drinking poison part in verse 18?
Originally posted by ngeisler88Hi ngeisler88,
Heres my answer to Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 -
"Problem: Peter seems to be saying that those who responded hat to repent and be baptized before they could receive the Holy Spirit. But this is contrary to the teaching of Paul that baptism is not part of the Gospel (I Cor. 1:17) and that we are saved by faith alone (Rom. 4:4 and Eph. 2:8-9).
Solution: ...[text shortened]... a condition of salvation."
Thank you for your time xpoforens.
Originally posted by ngeisler88Hi again,
Heres my answer to Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 -
"Problem: Peter seems to be saying that those who responded hat to repent and be baptized before they could receive the Holy Spirit. But this is contrary to the teaching of Paul that baptism is not part of the Gospel (I Cor. 1:17) and that we are saved by faith alone (Rom. 4:4 and Eph. 2:8-9).
Solution: ...[text shortened]... a condition of salvation."
Thank you for your time xpoforens.
Originally posted by xpoferensYou've cited both pre and post Jewish-Christian schism writings (that is writing before and after Christianity became separate from Judaism). This makes it ambiguous as to what "baptism" might mean. I think ngeisler88 might have meant that we the "ritual" baptism is unnecassary, while the more virtical baptism (like a born-again experience) is just an expression of faith - and thus consitutes the belief though which we are saved.
Hi again,
[b]First
The word "for" (eis) is used hundreds of times in the New Testament, always with forward looking.
Please notice this passage...
Matthew 26:28 "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
The word "eis" is used, with the same meaning as in Acts 2:38.
The following li ...[text shortened]... ber, it is an AND, not an OR.
Take care.[/b]
Originally posted by Conrau KHi Conrau K,
You've cited both pre and post Jewish-Christian schism writings (that is writing before and after Christianity became separate from Judaism). This makes it ambiguous as to what "baptism" might mean. I think ngeisler88 might have meant that we the "ritual" baptism is unnecassary, while the more virtical baptism (like a born-again experience) is just an expression of faith - and thus consitutes the belief though which we are saved.
Originally posted by xpoferensHello to you to,
Hi Conrau K,
I don't know where you stand regarding the Bible and Christianity.
Do you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God?
I'm only trying to say what the Bible says regarding salvation, and in this case, regarding baptism.
Baptism is not a translation, but a transliteration of the Greek (koine) "baptizo", which means "to be immersed it, but so that everyone could read, understand and obey its simple message.
Regards