What is the human soul?

Galv, if you are going to copy/paste this much stuff, why don't you just state your argument or premise in your OP and post a link for those who are interested. Surely you don't need all these posts to make a simple point - or are you just trying to prove something else?

Originally posted by divegeester
Galv, if you are going to copy/paste this much stuff, why don't you just state your argument or premise in your OP and post a link for those who are interested. Surely you don't need all these posts to make a simple point - or are you just trying to prove something else?

Its a typical marketing/indoctrination ploy. Confuse people with voluminous information of no relevance.

G-75 tell us in like 1-3 sentences or more from your reading and understanding what the human Soul is. Your words if you want to link references that's ok but tell us with your own thoughts of what you read or comprehended.



Manny

As I've stated before and will continue to say is I do this because I agree with the scriptures and the comments that are with these scriptures. If any of you do not want to read this info, fine, don't read it and move on.
But I challenge all of you to show where these comments are wrong and not backed up by the scriptures that are quoted with them....

Originally posted by galveston75
As I've stated before and will continue to say is I do this because I agree with the scriptures and the comments that are with these scriptures. If any of you do not want to read this info, fine, don't read it and move on.
But I challenge all of you to show where these comments are wrong and not backed up by the scriptures that are quoted with them....

So please sum it up for us or for me then!! I not condemning you for pasting the long articles necessarily but tells us what your understanding is from your beliefs of scripture. (Even if it's JW doctrine or whatever) Your words on what is the human soul based off of your reading and understanding.

Example: My understanding from scripture is the soul lives on after this body dies because of blank blank .............



Manny

Originally posted by menace71
So please sum it up for us or for me then!! I not condemning you for pasting the long articles necessarily but tells us what your understanding is from your beliefs of scripture. (Even if it's JW doctrine or whatever) Your words on what is the human soul based off of your reading and understanding.

Example: My understanding from scripture is the soul lives on after this body dies because of blank blank .............



Manny

You dont understand Manny. He cannot sum up anything. The JWs dont want to accept what Christ said in very simple English and with a very simple illustration about the soul .. that
- the soul cannot be killed by anyone except God
- man can only kill the body.
- that the soul and body are separate and distinct parts of a human.
- all nicely illustraated in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus where two dead people's souls apparently went somewhere .. we dont know for sure where.

The only time people can sum up things nicely is when they accept what Christ said. Christ used very simple language.

Those who change the meaning of what the Christ says have to do so by long confusing verbose posts that are full of assumptions and personal interpretations and therefore bias.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You dont understand Manny. He cannot sum up anything. The JWs dont want to accept what Christ said in very simple English and with a very simple illustration about the soul .. that
- the soul cannot be killed by anyone except God
- man can only kill the body.
- that the soul and body are separate and distinct parts of a human.
- all nicely illustraated ...[text shortened]... ing verbose posts that are full of assumptions and personal interpretations and therefore bias.

Perhaps it's the overwhelming proof with "scriptures" and other evidence from outside sourses that shows the soul and body are in fact the same and that is the problem. I could just quote a couple scriptures and a thought or two but why not go ahead and give all the evidence with the scriptures to back it up? If one is going to plead his case on a subject and go to the trouble to share with the forum, why not give it ones best?
Again maybe it's just that some here don't want to be shown something that goes against their beliefs and even more might show that belief is not scriptural and then it would mean such ones would have to admit they were wrong.
I'm not looking to trip anyone up or make one look bad but I'm taking the time out to do this posting even though I know I'll recieve the usual flack from most.
But in return I simply ask to see a scripture or two that backs up this belief that the soul is different then the body and proof that the soul lives on after death or is tormented forever in a burning hell.
So far I see no proof from anyone from the Bible at all but instead I'm called stupid?

Originally posted by menace71
So please sum it up for us or for me then!! I not condemning you for pasting the long articles necessarily but tells us what your understanding is from your beliefs of scripture. (Even if it's JW doctrine or whatever) Your words on what is the human soul based off of your reading and understanding.

Example: My understanding from scripture is the soul lives on after this body dies because of blank blank .............



Manny

Thanks Manny for being civil. Others here seem to have a void in their hearts of that quality.
But very simply put, we were created with a body that the bible in Genesis called a soul. That scripture did not use the term body but it said "a living soul."
The bible clearly says the soul "will die" because we all sin.
The bible clearly says that when we die our spirit goes back to God. It never in anyway shape or form uses the word soul going to him or some place else.
The thought and beliefs of someones being or spirit or body or soul, living on after death all came from paganistic nations such as Babylon. Not a bible teaching anywhere.
The Bible does say that "some" the "little flock" would be resurrected in an instant to heaven so they would not see death or experiance any time in the grave. All other humans will experiance a lengthy time in the grave after death but are awaiting a resurrection at a latter time back here on earth where we are all from...........

Originally posted by galveston75
Thanks Manny for being civil. Others here seem to have a void in their hearts of that quality.
But very simply put, we were created with a body that the bible in Genesis called a soul. That scripture did not use the term body but it said "a living soul."
The bible clearly says the soul "will die" because we all sin.
The bible clearly says that when ...[text shortened]... ting a resurrection at a latter time back here on earth where we are all from...........

Fair enough 🙂 I would want to see the original words for Soul vs Spirit but none the less after our fleshly body dies some part of us remains somewhere. God knows and can recall us in an instant. I believe that our spirit goes to be with Christ and at the last trump of God we will be raised with new imperishable bodies. Paul also stated that he revealed a mystery that not all would sleep but at the last trump of God they will be changed in an instant. So this sleep means what? For some will yet it also says the spirit goes back to God and also Paul says for the believer that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This is all scriptural.

Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Fair enough 🙂 I would want to see the original words for Soul vs Spirit but none the less after our fleshly body dies some part of us remains somewhere. God knows and can recall us in an instant. I believe that our spirit goes to be with Christ and at the last trump of God we will be raised with new imperishable bodies. Paul also stated that he revealed a ...[text shortened]... hat to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This is all scriptural.

Manny

Well this is where we have to start putting scriptures together to see as a whole what the Bible is saying. Sometimes if we just get a couple scriptures in our minds, especially ones that are confusing then we don't get the correct understanding as you know.
So yes you are right that something does go back to God but it is simply the life force that all life has. Even animals.
But if you look at thse scriptures it starts to paint the picture of what happens to humans at death.

Psalm 146:4
New Living Translation (NLT)

4 When they breathe their last, they return to the earth,
and all their plans die with them.



Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
Good News Translation (GNT)

5 Yes, the living know they are going to die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten.6 Their loves, their hates, their passions, all died with them. They will never again take part in anything that happens in this world.



Ecclesiastes 9:10
Good News Translation (GNT)

10 Work hard at whatever you do, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead—and that is where you are going.



John 11:11-14
Good News Translation (GNT)

11 Jesus said this and then added,
Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I will go and wake him up.
12 The disciples answered,
If he is asleep, Lord, he will get well.
13 Jesus meant that Lazarus had died, but they thought he meant natural sleep.14 So Jesus told them plainly,
Lazarus is dead.

Notice in all these scriptures it explains that one is dead with no thoughts, no plans, and in a sleep like state.
This is the explination that all understood the dead to be all the time before Jesus came to earth. No mention at all of anykind of after life in any form other then the promise of a resurrection sometime in the future and that was a resurrection to earth only. Nothing is mentioned of anything going back to God except that their spirt or life force returned to God as he is the giver of life to all things.
But now once Jesus came to earth he told his followers of a new hope of a resurrection and that was to be given to only a few, the "Little Flock" that would rule with him in heaven over the earth for the 1000 years the Bible speaks of.
These were to be chosen because of their faith and because of their obediance to Jesus and by remaining faithful to the death. But because of them being the "chosen ones" they were told they would not be left in the grave as all other humans would experiance but would be resurrected instantly once Jesus took the thrown and sat down beside his Father who is on his throne. So many of those chosen ones would not experiance death as we know it. The Bible says it would be in the "twinkeling of an eye" that it would happen. But not in the flesh as the Bible explains but in a spirit form.


As for as the spirit or life force is explained here in this scripture...

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Good News Translation (GNT)

7 Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.

No mention here of anything else surviving and going somewhere else.
This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. But it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God’s hands and only by God’s power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again after a resurrection.

So again no mention or teachings in the Bible of any kind of some part of a person living on after death other then the chosen ones being resurrected to heaven to serve as kings and judges with Jesus. All other humans would lay waiting in the grave until the resurrection began after armegeddon to be judged.

Originally posted by galveston75
Part 2:

Created With an Immortal Soul?

Genesis 2:7 tells us: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” The account does not say that God implanted in man an immortal soul. It says that when God’s power en ...[text shortened]... ortal souls exist. (Jeremiah 19:5; 32:35) There is no eternal torment in the dust of the ground.

Man's body does not have a soul; but man is body and soul and spirit. The soul
was created at the time the spirit from the Spirit of God was infused with the
lifeless body of man. That is why when the spirit returns to God at death then
the body decays and returns to the dust of the ground from which it was made.
But then that leaves the living soul that is yet to be judged for the judgment is yet
to come.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Man's body does not have a soul; but man is body and soul and spirit. The soul
was created at the time the spirit from the Spirit of God was infused with the
lifeless body of man. That is why when the spirit returns to God at death then
the body decays and returns to the dust of the ground from which it was made.
But then that leaves the living soul that is yet to be judged for the judgment is yet
to come.

So in the mean time what is this soul doing while waiting to be judged? Where is it, what is it doing, is it on earth, heaven, hell? Does it eat, sleep etc? I'd like scriptures to prove what your going to say...

Originally posted by galveston75
Well this is where we have to start putting scriptures together to see as a whole what the Bible is saying. Sometimes if we just get a couple scriptures in our minds, especially ones that are confusing then we don't get the correct understanding as you know.
So yes you are right that something does go back to God but it is simply the life force that al ould lay waiting in the grave until the resurrection began after armegeddon to be judged.

Obviously you do not understand these scriptures. So I will explain them to you
so you are not left ignorant.

Pslam 146:4 indicates that any plans one makes on the Earth for the body die with
the body even though the soul lives on because the body returns to the dust of the
ground. The mind of the soul can not continue to carry out his plans because his
tool (the body) is broken.

All of Ecclesiastes is Solomon's thoughts as a preacher from man's point of view
"under the sun" and not from God's point of view. Man sees life as vanity without
permanent value because when the body dies, he has no reward for all his labors,
his memories are gone and he knows nothing, and will never be able to take part
in anything that happens in the world. This is exactly the way the atheist think for
they do not believe God's word.

In the reference to John 11 Christ is telling his disciple that the soul of Lazarus has
fallen asleep and he would go and wake him up. The disciples think he will wake
up on his own. Then Christ has to inform them that the body is dead. But Christ
has the power to revive the body by reuniting the life-giving spirit with the body
and awakening the soul with all his memories, etc.

Here is one you forgot about Lazarus and the rich man that Christ told:

“Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

(Luke 16:19-31 NASB)

It appears the Christ believes the soul of Lazarus and the rich man do know things
after the body dies.

Originally posted by galveston75
Sorry but I did miss that. But I'll not respond to you if you continue to refuse to show any respect for me as a person. I've told you and others before I have bad eyes and it's easy for me to misread the post here..........

"I really hope you aren't raising any children as this is such a pathetic, meaningless, shallow and demonic outlook on life." galveston75 - 'sex before marriage' thread 15/03/12


as a father of two fantastic children, it seems to me you were not being very respectful with the above comments. i think you are being a little hypocritical throwing your toys out of the pram because somebody is being 'rude' to you. isnt there some saying in the bible about doing unto others as you would have them do unto you?

Originally posted by galveston75
Thanks Manny for being civil. Others here seem to have a void in their hearts of that quality.
But very simply put, we were created with a body that the bible in Genesis called a soul. That scripture did not use the term body but it said "a living soul."
The bible clearly says the soul "will die" because we all sin.
The bible clearly says that when ...[text shortened]... ting a resurrection at a latter time back here on earth where we are all from...........

You need to reread my thread called "We are Body, Soul and Spirit". I guess jaywill
probably explains it better than I and he gives the references in the Holy Bible
that you say are nowhere in it. HalleluYah !!!