@fmf saidYou leave out the part about sincere contrition being a requisite. ^^&
I don't believe that there is a god or gods that "hold murderers, rapists, and haters of the light responsible".
What I find fascinating is the notion that murderers and rapists can be rewarded with everlasting life for believing in Jesus while people who are not murderers and rapists who don't find the Jesus story credible can be tormented in burning flames for eternity as " ...[text shortened]... d up by the human imagination. It's interesting how it appeals to the imagination of so many people.
As for who would else go to hell, we are told that those who know little will be punished with few stripes, and so we can hope for salvation for manhy who fight the description of being ignorant of God. The thing is, those who very, very adamantly refuse and deny it are doing a disservice to God, and I would be worried for their sake.
To call God "depraved" because you reject the concept of hell is very extreme, FMF. It shows a sort of lack of faith in the idea that God would choose what is best for people.
@philokalia saidI am not calling "God" depraved. You're making this up. This is what I said:
To call God "depraved" because you reject the concept of hell is very extreme, FMF. It shows a sort of lack of faith in the idea that God would choose what is best for people.
The perceived supernatural being at the centre of the torturer god ideology seems to me to be the most ludicrous and depraved idea ever conjured up by the human imagination.
@philokalia saidIndustrial strength or wishy washy, the ideology still seems like a noxious mix of misanthropy and narcissism and 'it is because it is'-fuelled "mumbo jumbo".
As for who would else go to hell, we are told that those who know little will be punished with few stripes, and so we can hope for salvation for manhy who fight the description of being ignorant of God. The thing is, those who very, very adamantly refuse and deny it are doing a disservice to God, and I would be worried for their sake.
But if religious stuff - like telling me I am "ignorant" because I don't share your beliefs - helps you get through life and deal with the certainty of death, go for it.
Whatever fanciful or pretentious beliefs you may have plucked from the marketplace of supernatural ideas, it does me no harm.
@fmf saidBut what if they can't be reformed? What if they continue to do the same things over, and over, and over...............?
Harming others is almost always not morally sound. When such acts contravene the law and can be prosecuted and the perpetrators punished for it, then I support that. I don't advocate not punishing those who have harmed others. Sometimes people get away with it. Sometimes people are wrongly prosecuted. That's life.
@whodey saidKeep them in gaol. Till the day they die, if necessary.
But what if they can't be reformed? What if they continue to do the same things over, and over, and over...............?
What's your analogy?
Are you claiming that torturing people by burning for eternity for not believing in Jesus is about them being "reformed"?
@fmf saidBut the belief is actually that unrepentant sin and the rejection of Christ is the source of going to hell, and we cannot really speculate upon that.
Keep them in gaol. Till the day they die, if necessary.
What's your analogy?
Are you claiming that torturing people by burning for eternity for not believing in Jesus is about them being "reformed"?
By overly reducing it to this point, you are distorting it.
@philokalia saidThe belief that people are going to go to "hell" because they are not a member of your religion is a matter for members of your religion. Such a narcissistic belief about the significance or power of your own speculation and conjecture about things you have no proof of does not create any moral imperatives for people outside your religion. If believing the stuff you believe works for you: good. If it gives you some kind of solace in the face of death: good for you.
But the belief is actually that unrepentant sin and the rejection of Christ is the source of going to hell, and we cannot really speculate upon that.
By overly reducing it to this point, you are distorting it.
@fmf saidThis actually doesn't respond to what I said. I was challenging the propriety of how you phrased the belief that myself and many other Christians have.
The belief that people are going to go to "hell" because they are not a member of your religion is a matter for members of your religion. Such a narcissistic belief about the significance or power of your own speculation and conjecture about things you have no proof of does not create any moral imperatives for people outside your religion. If believing the stuff you believe works for you: good. If it gives you some kind of solace in the face of death: good for you.
I think you will continue to have such a poor opinion of God because you do not even want to state the case for God in the way that it is stated in the Bible.
If you can't be bothered to state things accurately about the religion, with precision, you are not behaving seriously about it.
We have all been doing this for years so we should think of ourselves as advancing, right, and as we advance we should strive to be more precise in the way that we treat topics, not continuing to engage it as amateurs.