Originally posted by sonhouse
Just how do you know I am an atheist? Have I ever claimed that? I have told you several times I cannot deny the possibility of some kind of god, since I have only seen a good portion of Earth only, haven't visited other dimensions, haven't been to any other planets, haven't seen alien civilizations and such so I would be foolish to dismiss the idea of the p ...[text shortened]... how easily you and billions of others like you are brainwashed and you don't even know it.

Do you actually have an active belief that a god actually exists?

Do you feel sure that a god or gods exist?

If no, then atheist.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You are not familiar with a whole lot of things. Why don't you google scientology and find out for yourself? Or maybe if I just said Scientology was the greatest religion that was ever made, you would just believe it? If I said I have proof no man ever walked on the moon, you would probably believe that too.

He wouldn't believe it if you said it 😉

Originally posted by googlefudge
Do you actually have an active belief that a god actually exists?

Do you feel sure that a god or gods exist?

If no, then atheist.

It's not that black and white for me.
The term "god" is useful but in some cases, as in this one, rather unuseful.
Sometimes I think your view on the world is that it is mainly split up into atheists and theists. But I'm not going to jump to that conclusion.

The term Spirituality is often overlooked in this forum.
The word Spirit is rarely mentioned. Yet it is a very good word for describing many things and just as importantly (deja vu) in many traditions it does NOT imply a god or creator of any sort. Like in Buddhism for example.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
It's not that black and white for me.
The term "god" is useful but in some cases, as in this one, rather unuseful.
Sometimes I think your view on the world is that it is mainly split up into atheists and theists. But I'm not going to jump to that conclusion.

The term Spirituality is often overlooked in this forum.
The word Spirit is rarely menti ...[text shortened]... any traditions it does NOT imply a god or creator of any sort. Like in Buddhism for example.

Ok forget the words for a minute.

There are people who have a firm conviction that there exists one or more beings of immense power to which
we usually apply the label god/s.

Then there are all the other people who don't have that firm conviction.

This encompasses all people.

You either do have an active belief [firm conviction] in a god or gods, or you don't.


Now it's perfectly possible to have all kinds of doubt as to whether a god or gods do or do not exist.

But if you are all uncertain and don't know what if anything you believe on the subject then you don't
currently have a firm conviction (belief) that a god or gods exist.

You are either in one camp or the other, you believe or don't.

We have labels for these two states.

Atheist and Theist.

You are one or the other.


The fact that you are in one camp or the other doesn't mean you are stuck their or closed minded.
It's just a statement of whether you currently can look inside yourself and find a firm conviction that
a god or gods exist.

If you don't have that conviction, that belief, then atheist.
If you do have that conviction, that belief, then theist.


If you are a Buddhist and don't have a belief in god (some do) then you are an atheist as well as a Buddhist.

However under common usage Buddhist would be the more relevant or important label.

You would be an atheist Buddhist as distinct from a theist Buddhist.




Atheism and theism simply refer to positions of belief on the question of the existence of a god or gods.

Nothing else.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Ok forget the words for a minute.

There are people who have a firm conviction that there exists one or more beings of immense power to which
we usually apply the label god/s.

Then there are all the other people who don't have that firm conviction.

This encompasses all people.

You either do have an active belief [firm conviction] in a god or ...[text shortened]... ositions of belief on the question of the existence of a god or gods.

Nothing else.

Still not convincing enough for me. But heck, I am just speaking for myself and one voice amongst 7 billion doesn't amount to a whole lot.

Furthermore I find myself agreeing with the atheists in this forum by and large , yet distinctly being a non-atheist... but definately not a theist.

My way is my way. and the further you try to label me or anyone the more further you get from the truth.

Anyway, i appreciate your comments and you say many things that I agree with.

It's just when you go black and white with this theism business that I find your world view lacking somehow.


I think "non-dualist" is the best term I've come across on this site to refer to ones like me.

I'll give it some more thought later, I need to go and do some other stuff now 🙂

Originally posted by googlefudge
Ok forget the words for a minute.

There are people who have a firm conviction that there exists one or more beings of immense power to which
we usually apply the label god/s.

Then there are all the other people who don't have that firm conviction.

This encompasses all people.

You either do have an active belief [firm conviction] in a god or ositions of belief on the question of the existence of a god or gods.

Nothing else.

Just one more thing.

I have never heard any buddhist refer to themselves as 'atheist buddhists' or 'theist buddhist'.

These terms seem totally foreign and impracticle to my way of thinking

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Just one more thing.

I have never heard any buddhist refer to themselves as 'atheist buddhists' or 'theist buddhist'.

These terms seem totally foreign and impracticle to my way of thinking

Then don't use them.

Labels are useful only as a communication tool between people.
If you want to convey something different to what any particular label general is taken to
mean then don't use it.
Many people ARE atheists, but refer to themselves as a skeptic or humanist because they
want to convey something different to (but not contradictory to) the meaning conveyed by
the label atheist.

For example in RL I live in the UK where not believing in a god is not remotely remarkable
I would refer to myself as a skeptic and a Humanist because that tells you something interesting
and useful about what I believe, My values, and why I hold those values. (if asked, I don't randomly
go around telling people I am a skeptic and Humanist)



I am an atheist because I don't have a strong conviction (belief) in a deity of any kind.

I could (and some do) believe all kinds of things that are not justified by the current
evidence (or are disproven flat out) like homoeopathy and crystal energy or....

And I would still be an atheist because I don't have a belief in a deity.


Now you either have a firm conviction that a deity exist or you don't.
If you don't know if you have a firm conviction then you don't.

The only possible way I can see for not agreeing with this is if you are iffy about what you
mean by god/deity.



Now if the problem here is that you are equivocating over what a god or deity is then
you might not know which you are.

However you are still one or the other.

To determine which we would have to discuss what you mean, or don't mean, by god.
And what it is that you actually believe in.

Now if you don't care then by all means say so because it really isn't that important.

However if you think the discussion itself might be interesting then you know where to find me ;-)

Originally posted by googlefudge
Then don't use them.

Labels are useful only as a communication tool between people.
If you want to convey something different to what any particular label general is taken to
mean then don't use it.
Many people ARE atheists, but refer to themselves as a skeptic or humanist because they
want to convey something different to (but not contradicto ...[text shortened]... u think the discussion itself might be interesting then you know where to find me ;-)

Well I have argued both ways because of the nature of "God"

ie ,I have argued that all is god, god is in everything known and unknown - but not a deity separate from the rest of creation
, also I have argued that there is no god.

I believe life to be a paradox. Or maybe thats just a starting point for understanding life and why's and the big questions, etc.

As for ascertaining any meaningful answer I believe only the individual themself can know whether he or she has the real answer.

In the Zen tradition this is verified by a bona fide Zen master.

As for being completely wrong in my beliefs (or lack thereof) , I, like you , would be automatically convinced either way if some concrete evidence came by. But I, like you , would be skeptical, however I have had certain experiences in my life, many of them, which I, nor anyone else can satisfactorily explain.

So when someone says "God knows" , they mean "no one knows".

(Am I just digging myself deeper here or am I making any sense?)

Originally posted by sonhouse
So how many republicans have been in office in the last 40 years? Plenty of time for your blessed republicans to have put a leg up on the rest of the world just in time to stop the dreaded democrats from tearing it all down. So that didn't happen either so I guess we are back to the whole thing being just another scam which you start to believe because some other dude said so. Where have I heard that before?

Your Democrats have been in control of Congress nearly all of that time and the 4 years the Republicans were in charge their majority was so small that they could not get anything done without some of the Democrats going along with it.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Just how do you know I am an atheist? Have I ever claimed that? I have told you several times I cannot deny the possibility of some kind of god, since I have only seen a good portion of Earth only, haven't visited other dimensions, haven't been to any other planets, haven't seen alien civilizations and such so I would be foolish to dismiss the idea of the p ...[text shortened]... how easily you and billions of others like you are brainwashed and you don't even know it.

Yes you dismiss the idea of the God of the Holy Bible by defending the theory of evolution so strongly. If you are not for Christ you are against Him. You are of your father the devil.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Ok forget the words for a minute.

There are people who have a firm conviction that there exists one or more beings of immense power to which
we usually apply the label god/s.

Then there are all the other people who don't have that firm conviction.

This encompasses all people.

You either do have an active belief [firm conviction] in a god or ...[text shortened]... ositions of belief on the question of the existence of a god or gods.

Nothing else.

Partially correct. Not all Theists believe in God. Some Theists believe in a god or many gods. A Theist could believe in Satan as his god. Only true Jews and Christians believe in God. Jews simply have a less complete understanding of God than Christians do. But all these Theists that don't believe in God are the same as Atheists that don't believe in God.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Still not convincing enough for me. But heck, I am just speaking for myself and one voice amongst 7 billion doesn't amount to a whole lot.

Furthermore I find myself agreeing with the atheists in this forum by and large , yet distinctly being a non-atheist... but definately not a theist.

My way is my way. and the further you try to label me or an ...[text shortened]... me.

I'll give it some more thought later, I need to go and do some other stuff now 🙂

At the Judgment there is one side or the other. There is no inbetween or non-committal category. You are either for God and His Christ or against Him. So you must make up your mind. Making up a religion for yourself does not cut it.
That is what is called idolatry.

Originally posted by RJHinds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEebVsIae6c&feature=related

Bucking follocks.
Insipid pabulum for the mentally and spiritually challenged.

Originally posted by RJHinds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEebVsIae6c&feature=related

What do you think it is?

Originally posted by RJHinds
At the Judgment there is one side or the other. There is no inbetween or non-committal category. You are either for God and His Christ or against Him. So you must make up your mind. Making up a religion for yourself does not cut it.
That is what is called idolatry.

I thought idolatry was accosiated with worshipping an idol of some sort?

Anyway, I see you're on a real roll tonight. Did you double dose again?