Originally posted by galveston75The symbolism was created a long time after the burial and resurrection
Well YES it does but believe what you want. And your quoting from the old testiment. But when Jesus came to earth and established Christianity, many things changed and the procedure for baptism became a symbolism for dying and being resurrected. If one were to only get sprinkled with water instead of completly being under it, then one would not symbolis ...[text shortened]... izes.
You need to get out of the dark and old teachings of your church and learn the truth.
of Christ to give more support to laying someone under the water and
then the priest, etc. bringing them back up out of the water in contrast
to what others were doing with sprinkling. It is just like the symbolism
some teach children in support of the celebration of Easter.
Originally posted by mikelomYou are a false teacher like your false prophet, Muhammad ibn Abdullah.
In answer to the original post, I would like to give additional support in what was so great about Jesus.
The ancient days comprised a person's attire which included feet bound in Bethlehemic leaf. This was immensely uncomfortable.
A new teacher arrived, wearing the patented name 'Jesus boots', known to modern day man as 'sandals'.
Jesus was a great ...[text shortened]... ly for eating in Campbell's soup. The Apostle Campbell is another story. 😀
-m. 😉
Originally posted by RJHindsActs 8:38-39
The symbolism was created a long time after the burial and resurrection
of Christ to give more support to laying someone under the water and
then the priest, etc. bringing them back up out of the water in contrast
to what others were doing with sprinkling. It is just like the symbolism
some teach children in support of the celebration of Easter.
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
38 And he ordered the [a]chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, [b]but went on his way rejoicing.
Says nothing of being sprinkled....... No bowls or other emblems mentioned.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Baptism---The-Four-Different-Types-in-the-Bible&id=4621985
http://www.clearviewbaptist.us/faith/Baptize.htm
Baptism Defined "Bridges of Peace."
The Greek is quite instructive in the case of baptism. T.J. Conant states simply, “The Greek word baptizein expresses nothing more than the act of immersion, the religious significance of which is derived from the circumstances connected with it” (Conant, 101). Scholars widely agree that this Greek word, standing alone, means “to dip,” with the idea of complete immersion. W.A. Jarrel offers: “Greek literature shows that baptizo is used to indicate being put within and under, whatever the mode by which it is done—whether by an overflowing flood, by a sinking ship, or otherwise. But, whatever the mode by which the immersion is accomplished—always an immersion” (Jarrel, 4). Perhaps if the English rendered the word according to its meaning, pastors today would find it difficult to say, “I immerse by sprinkling.”
"baptize"
The Greek word rendered "baptize" is baptizo. So "baptize" is not really a translation at all; it is a transliteration of the Greek letters into English ones. So if one were to actually translate this word, what would be the best translation?
Following are lexical details on this word from several Greek lexicons I have found particularly helpful:
to employ water in a religious ceremony designed to symbolize purification and initiation on the basis of repentance—“to baptize." [A note is added that refers to the Didache], According to the Didache (early second century) different forms of baptism were practiced in the early church, but with evident preference given to immersion.[i]
dip, immerse, mid[dle voice] dip oneself, wash (in non-Christian lit[erature] also plunge, sink, drench, overwhelm). [The Didache is also mentioned,] where baptism by pouring is allowed in cases of necessity.[ii]
to baptize, originally to dip under.[iii]
Verb used in the NT, usually translated by its English derivative, “baptize.” ... The Jews baptized persons or things (Mark 7:4, the cognate noun baptismos, “washings&rdquo😉.... Cf. the cognate verb bapto, “dip, immerse,” and the noun baptisma, “baptism."[iv]
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk) 2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe 3) to overwhelm.[v]
Strictly, dip, immerse in water; mid[dle voice] dip oneself, wash; pred[ominantly] of the use of water in a relig[ious] and symbolic sense in the NT…. [vi]
I also checked the more lengthy discussions in Kittle's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament and Colin Brown's Dictionary of New Testament Theology. The information in these volumes is similar to the above. So every lexicon I checked supports the idea of “to dip” or “to immerse” as being the basic meaning of baptizo.
So if one is going to actually translate this word, the only rendering that really makes sense is “immerse.” There really is no other possible translation. The only way to avoid this rendering is to simply transliterate rather than to translate it.
What was so great about Jesus?
The scrabble score of it's first, and tallest letter is equal to it's total number of letters; and the number of letters that have a scrabble score of 1 is equal to the square of both the number of vowels or consonants in the same collection. All it's letters have curly bits (unlike T or x for example).
Other than that, if he existed, he was little more special than a non-son-of-God person who said some wise things and got shafted for it.
Originally posted by galveston75It is said that a picture is worth a 1000 words, so I will let this picture
Acts 8:38-39
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
38 And he ordered the [a]chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, [b]but went on his way rejoicing.
Says nothing o ...[text shortened]... way to avoid this rendering is to simply transliterate rather than to translate it.
on baptism speak:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism
1 edit
Originally posted by AgergHe was special enough that a calender system that we all use today
[b]What was so great about Jesus?
The scrabble score of it's first, and tallest letter is equal to it's total number of letters; and the number of letters that have a scrabble score of 1 is equal to the square of both the number of vowels or consonants in the same collection. All it's letters have curly bits (unlike T or x for example).
Other than that ...[text shortened]... e more special than a non-son-of-God person who said some wise things and got shafted for it.[/b]
was started based on when it was thought He was born; and a new
religion began that celebrates His birth, death, and resurrection.
The name Jesus is used by both religious and non-religious people
more often than any other name. He has been written and talked
about more than anyone else in history, so there must be something
very special about Him, maybe, it is because He truely is God with us.
Originally posted by RJHindsHe was special enough that a calender(sic) system that we all use today
He was special enough that a calender system that we all use today
was started based on when it was thought He was born; and a new
religion began that celebrates His birth, death, and resurrection.
The name Jesus is used by both religious and non-religious people
more often than any other name. He has been written and talked
about more than anyone else ...[text shortened]... there must be something
very special about Him, maybe, it is because He truely is God with us.
was started based on when it was thought He was born
So what? The Islamic calendar is based on Mohammeds flight from Mecca. And there are many more systems. The reason the world uses the gregorian calendar is one of convenience and nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus.
a new religion began that celebrates His birth, death, and resurrection
so everyone that starts a new religion is the Messiah?
The name Jesus is used by both religious and non-religious people
more often than any other name
Not this year. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/charlie-sheen-is-discussed-person-165950
Originally posted by RJHindsYou know what the problem is I feel as I believe you mentioned you were baptist? My Mom was baptist but never agreed with many things with their teachings while she was growing up, especially the trinity. She said it went against all common sense. But that's besides the point here.
Okay, let's put it behind us then and speak of more valuable stuff.
Any suggestions?
P.S. How about the Deity of Christ?
But one thing she always said she heard as a kid from the baptist members was this: "I was born a baptist and I'll die a baptist!!!!"
So because I know a little of the mind set of you guys I guess it would be easy to conclude that for you die hards, no matter what proof from multiple sources including you own Bible, your going to believe your false doctrines all the way to the grave. Am I right or what?
Originally posted by galveston75I think this is off topic as well. Don't you thing that what really
You know what the problem is I feel as I believe you mentioned you were baptist? My Mom was baptist but never agreed with many things with their teachings while she was growing up, especially the trinity. She said it went against all common sense. But that's besides the point here.
But one thing she always said she heard as a kid from the baptist membe ...[text shortened]... le, your going to believe your false doctrines all the way to the grave. Am I right or what?
makes the man Jesus so great is because He is God with us?