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    01 Oct '12 18:22
    What would you accept as evidence of a creator?
  2. Standard memberAgerg
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    01 Oct '12 18:353 edits
    Originally posted by NOTGATE
    What would you accept as evidence of a creator?
    Well if we're talking about an omniscient, omnipotent creator (and correct me if you refer to just any old creator entity) then there is no need for me to state what I would accept as evidence - such a being would already know. Moreover, given that any evidence presented so far has been insufficient, one of the following is true:

    a) Such an entity withholds such evidence because i) it deems it more satisfactory to itself that I should carry on being unable to believe it exists, or ii) it simply doesn't care (and in both cases is therefore a dick if it punishes me for not believing it exists)
    b) Such an entity presenting that evidence to me is logically impossible somehow (otherwise, by omnipotence, we have situation (a))
    c) Such an entity doesn't exist
  3. Standard memberfinnegan
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    01 Oct '12 19:51
    Originally posted by NOTGATE
    What would you accept as evidence of a creator?
    There is lots of evidence of a creator. Having evidence in support of a proposal is something any competent salesman can put together. I have evidence that Persil washes whiter than Daz and that Daz washes whiter than Persil but you may substitute your own preferred brands. I also have the evidence of my own eyes and many witnesses that a magician can saw off the head of a member of their audience and put them back together again. Totally convincing in my opinion.
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    01 Oct '12 20:27
    Originally posted by NOTGATE
    What would you accept as evidence of a creator?
    There cannot be evidence that there is a creator.

    There is something called faith.

    Evidence would destroy faith.

    But faith is indestructible.

    So... there cannot be evidence that there is a creator.
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    01 Oct '12 20:31
    Originally posted by NOTGATE
    What would you accept as evidence of a creator?
    an examination of the natural world reveals, incredible beauty, complexity, harmony,
    order, intelligence, power, wisdom and love.
  6. Standard memberAgerg
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    01 Oct '12 20:361 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    an examination of the natural world reveals, incredible beauty, complexity, harmony,
    order, intelligence, power, wisdom and love.
    Or in other words: This world is very complicated, too complicated for me to possibly wrap my head around it in one lifetime, ergo goddidit.
  7. Standard memberfinnegan
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    01 Oct '12 20:42
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    an examination of the natural world reveals, incredible beauty, complexity, harmony,
    order, intelligence, power, wisdom and love.
    Absolutely, And yet we are often asked to examine a big fat collection of ancient books as a substitute for examining the natural world. If it is not in the big fat book, then it cannot possibly be out there in the natural world.
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    01 Oct '12 20:471 edit
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Or in other words: This world is very complicated, too complicated for me to possibly wrap my head around it in one lifetime, ergo goddidit.
    I have been asking you for millennia now for you to to teach me about Mandelbrot
    fractals, the universe is full of fractals, this is not too complicated for a mathematician
    like you to grasp and to explain to a noob like me. 😀
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    01 Oct '12 20:49
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Absolutely, And yet we are often asked to examine a big fat collection of ancient books as a substitute for examining the natural world. If it is not in the big fat book, then it cannot possibly be out there in the natural world.
    The big fat book also recommends an examination of the natural world, Romans 1:20
    😀
  10. Standard memberfinnegan
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    01 Oct '12 21:20
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    The big fat book also recommends an examination of the natural world, Romans 1:20
    😀
    That is a very good recommendation then and I recommend it too. So I must be a big fat book.
  11. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    01 Oct '12 22:35
    Originally posted by NOTGATE
    What would you accept as evidence of a creator?
    I'm not sure. As David Hume put it, this world could be "the rude essay of some infant deity" - so looking for some sort of brilliant design plan may be misguided.
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    02 Oct '12 00:29
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    The big fat book also recommends an examination of the natural world, Romans 1:20
    😀
    and in doing so, you discover that the big fat book as worthless except for using to raise up an undersized car battery and miracle of miracles, manage to drive that old clunker home in one piece!
  13. Standard membermenace71
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    02 Oct '12 06:13
    I just can't accept this all happened by chance or accident. I think it's mathematically impossible. If one of the 4 (5) fundamental forces of the universe were different we would not exist. If the solar system were different we would not exist. Too close to our star we fry too far we freeze. Our natural satellite right distance and helps provide tides and provides light at night. Atmosphere perfectly balanced to support life. Rotational speed just right and serves multiple functions. Right ambient temperature to support life and liquid water. just goes on and on. Not chance at all there is an intelligence behind the universe. Einstein while not believing in a personal God knew and saw and even said something along the lines of "The universe doesn't play dice" The universal equation of everything is God I believe.

    Manny
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    02 Oct '12 07:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    an examination of the natural world reveals, incredible beauty, complexity, harmony,
    order, intelligence, power, wisdom and love.
    The natural world is also a war zone. It is a 24 hour brutal battle for survival that is full of suffering. It is blind, pitiless and indifferent to that which goes on within it.
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    02 Oct '12 07:461 edit
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    and in doing so, you discover that the big fat book as worthless except for using to raise up an undersized car battery and miracle of miracles, manage to drive that old clunker home in one piece!
    I don't think any record of human activity spanning thousands of years to be worthless, Bach certainly didn't think so when he was using it as inspiration, nor did Titian, nor Carravagio. Buy a car battery that is the equivalent amperage for your car , the Bible has some excellent advice on how to live simply enabling you to save for it and also some excellent advice on being generous rather than tight-fisted, just think, if you had splashed out on a proper battery, you would not need to prop up your undersized one. It also offers some excellent principles that would negate driving a car that is unsafe,


    clearly you have no idea what values it holds.
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