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Originally posted by aardvarkhomeMy time is mine to do with what I will, as is yours, don't bother with
Shall we run through the evidence again.
As I said, you deliberately use a diferent frame of reference. If you want to debate biology and taxonomy then kindly use the established frames of reference used in those fields. Otherwise don't waste your own time.
I could make assertions about Christian theology while making no reference to the established bodies of knowlege in that field. In so doing I would make myself look foolish.
my posts if you dislike how I appoarch it. I don't have issue one
about those that want to discuss religion that don't know much about
it if they wish, if they can get their points across so that I know
what it is they mean great, if not I'll attempt to understand them by
asking questions. I'm not interested in your opinion of me being
foolish or not, when I want to express my opinion I will, and you are
free to do the same.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayUsing that standard of proof, you might as well refuse to believe in Abraham Lincoln as you did not personally "witness" him. I don't bother with such ridiculous skepticism; the evidence is sufficiently overwhelming for evolution that I don't need "faith".
That is my full point with evolution and your belief system!
You can see small changes within kinds, dogs to wolves or
the other way around who knows. You don't see worm to whale,
or grass to eagle. Which is where I say you have faith to accept
that as a fact, instead of the unwitnessed, unrecorded, only
theoried process that part of your belief system really is.
Kelly
Originally posted by Nosrac1. I came from a fertilised egg in my mother's womb.
Ok, if it is wrong
1) where did you come from?
2) how did he BIG BANG (or whatever happened) happen (please explain in full detail as
I'm sure we all want to know this)?
3) Why do avalances occur?
4) How many billions, no trillions, no gadzillions of light years have we been living
on this planet? I mean, hey, if the Bible is wrong then when the last Ts ...[text shortened]... Santa Claus???? I think not.
So, please, if the Bible is wrong, explain (IN LARGE DETAIL) why.
2. No one knows. Unlike religion, science makes no claims at complete knowledge. It's a process to find out about things. Usually answers we get to some questions leave many other questions unanswered. Theories and models that we use to explain things are contingent and falsifiable - meaning they are useful only so long as they work to explain things, and that they can be proven wrong with the appropriate counter evidence.
3. Not sure what avalances are? If you mean avalanches, then I'm not sure what you're doing on this site. I can direct you to some basic geology sites to find out about avalanches - causes are many and dependent on local topography, soil types, water table levels, climate and rainfall, and of course tectonic events like earthquakes.
4. Light years are a measure of distance - that is, the distance light travels in one year - which is a little bit over 1 billion kilometres. How long have we been on this planet? Me, 38 years. You, I don't think live on this planet. Humans, that depends on what you call human, but probably at least a couple of million years. Life, again not known for sure - which is the hallmark of science, few claims to absolute truth, but probably somwhere in the vicinity of 3 to 4 billion years. Vague, true, but only because we don't understand the mechanism of life's origins, and of course, evidence from so long ago is hard to come by.
As for tsunamis, which one are you talking about? Tsunamis are common events since their cause is fairly well understood - tectonic events on or near ocean floors transfer energy into the surrounding water, this transfers via wave action outwards. When waves travel into shallow water they increase in height - and bamm! Basic physics. Keeping the earth on its axis?
Where's that come from.
Have you gone off your medication?
Or are you reading too many idiotic armageddon sites?
Tiliting the earth's axis is not something a pissy little tsunami - even one that killed hundreds of thousands (if you're referring to the Asian Boxing Day tsunami from 2004).
Originally posted by KellyJayYou are the one that requires multiple creation events, 4 bya (bacteria), 3.5 bya (stromatolites), 500 mya - 1 bya (multicellular life), 400 million years ago (lichens, bryophytes), 350 mya (trees), 120 million yyears ago (flowering plants), 250 mya (reptiles), 200 mya (dinosaurs), 70 mya (mammals), and many subsequent independant creations to explain all the species. I only require the inception of life once. Everything since is merely the divergence of species. THAT'S what we're talking about here. If you want a discussion on abiogenesis, I'll happily have one (new thread though please) - next week, but I'm off on holidays for a few days.
It is enough to accept that life did start? Really, and you know
how and the details of that event? The process regardless on how
it started goes on, and no one is saying within life that there
aren’t small changes, but you are saying something else has
occurred, is occurring, and will occur that has not been witnessed,
recorded, or duplicated which is ...[text shortened]... ints are just as real as yours, what points do you want me to
address that I have not?
Kelly
Louis
excuse me, kind sir, for my spelling error.
God makes avalanches occur (man, you gusy
really don't get the book of Genesis do you?)
because there are small animals. The avalanches
storm over the animals and kill them. You've
heard of bears (no, not the Chicago ones either! Be
serious) haven't you? They hibernate, correct????
When they wake up after a long time of hibernation they
are.....HUNGRY, by then the ground is warm and look
what's on the ground................FOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe that a few of you are Christians, but do any of
you actually read the Bible????????
I mean c'mon, fossils from billions of years ago????
The earth is only four thousand years old. Get real.
I believe the good Lord sent me to this forum for a reason.
To plant seeds in y'all. Y'all that don't know any better.
If you are one who does not know God and doens't know
any better please read the book of Isaiah before it's too
late.
Originally posted by NosracSaid it before - saying it again.
excuse me, kind sir, for my spelling error.
God makes avalanches occur (man, you gusy
really don't get the book of Genesis do you?)
because there are small animals. The avalanches
storm over the animals and kill them. You've
heard of bears (no, not the Chicago ones either! Be
serious) haven't you? They hibernate, correct????
When they wake up after a ...[text shortened]... God and doens't know
any better please read the book of Isaiah before it's too
late.
You're NUTS!
Go out, read a non-fiction book for once! How old are you? 15? Why does god want to kill either (a) animals, or (b) humans in avalanches anyway? ANd what does that have to do with bears?
Originally posted by NosracYes, the 'good lord' did send you here for a reason.
excuse me, kind sir, for my spelling error.
God makes avalanches occur (man, you gusy
really don't get the book of Genesis do you?)
because there are small animals. The avalanches
storm over the animals and kill them. You've
heard of bears (no, not the Chicago ones either! Be
serious) haven't you? They hibernate, correct????
When they wake up after a ...[text shortened]... God and doens't know
any better please read the book of Isaiah before it's too
late.
To make a complete idiot out of you, and to give us a great laugh. I mean, get serious.
Originally posted by scottishinnzEnjoy your time off. Let me know when you'd like to pick this up again.
You are the one that requires multiple creation events, 4 bya (bacteria), 3.5 bya (stromatolites), 500 mya - 1 bya (multicellular life), 400 million years ago (lichens, bryophytes), 350 mya (trees), 120 million yyears ago (flowering plants), 250 mya (reptiles), 200 mya (dinosaurs), 70 mya (mammals), and many subsequent independant creations to explain a ...[text shortened]... one (new thread though please) - next week, but I'm off on holidays for a few days.
Louis
Kelly
Originally posted by NosracThis is a very good point. I never thought about who keeps the earth on its axis, or for that matter, who keeps us on the spinning earth.
I mean, hey, if the Bible is wrong then when the last Tsunami hit
we should ALL have died. Who do you think it was that kept the earth on its axis
after the Tsunami...Santa Claus???? I think not.
So, please, if the Bible is wrong, explain (IN LARGE DETAIL) why.
There's a little bit of a discussion going on in the DEBATES forum about the existence of aliens (or otherwise), and it strikes me that the argument from incredulity about ETIs has similar resonances with the anti-evolutionists.
The incredulity argument goes like this: I can't believe that in all of this massive galaxy and universe, that humans are theonly intelligent species that have developed. There must be others. How could there not be?
It's not terribly logically convincing, but is a common argument.
A similar argument about evolution seems to be the position of anti-evolutionists: I can't believe that the diversity of life on earth could have developed through small random mutations over a long period of time. It must be otherwise - there must be a creator.
As with the argument for ETIs, it's not convincing. Simply being unable to personally understand or imagine how something could happen does not make that thing impossible or even unlikely.
I think many anti-evolutionists are suffering from this incredulity.
Originally posted by KellyJayIf I attepted to debated christianity on the basis of division of the bible into three testaments called green, pink, and blue one of which dealt with the teachinhings of Kevin, daughter of god you would conclude that I was either trying to wind you up or I was talking from a position of ignorance.
My time is mine to do with what I will, as is yours, don't bother with
my posts if you dislike how I appoarch it. I don't have issue one
about those that want to discuss religion that don't know much about
it if they wish, if they can get their points across so that I know
what it is they mean great, if not I'll attempt to understand them by
asking que ...[text shortened]... or not, when I want to express my opinion I will, and you are
free to do the same.
Kelly
By analogy your use of the terms 'kind' and 'micro / macro evolution' smack of deliberately ignoring the terms of reference of a well established body of knowlege either as sheer 'wind up' or utter stupidity.
I'm happy to debate evolutionary biology with you but lets do it on the basis of a common frame of reference.
Originally posted by amannionA similar argument about evolution seems to be the position of anti-evolutionists: I can't believe that the diversity of life on earth could have developed through small random mutations over a long period of time. It must be otherwise - there must be a creator.
There's a little bit of a discussion going on in the DEBATES forum about the existence of aliens (or otherwise), and it strikes me that the argument from incredulity about ETIs has similar resonances with the anti-evolutionists.
The incredulity argument goes like this: I can't believe that in all of this massive galaxy and universe, that humans are theon ...[text shortened]... ble or even unlikely.
I think many anti-evolutionists are suffering from this incredulity.
I suppose your referring to the incredulous probability of the current diversity of life. But that kind of objection is inane. If I have a billion cards in front of me and I pick up one. The probability of picking up that one card was one in a billion. So "It must be otherwise- there must be a creator"?
And anyway, it is meaningless to speculate on the probablity of evolution since it has already happened. Thus since the only meaningful probability for a past event is 1, then the probability of evolution is 1 (one being the highest probability- it is inevitable)
Aliens on the otherhand is very different.
Originally posted by KellyJaySo what happens when you have 100, or more say 10,000 small changes would that be a large change? How many small changes become a large change? You have to remember the massive times involved as well to get an idea of evolution. Many of the changes might make the life form more complex and larger as these might increse its chances of passing down its genes.
How you view scripture being taken literally has nothing to do with
evolutionary ideas being in conflict with reality. It simply boils down
to how you define evoution, if you think it is small changes, no one
will debate that, if you think it is changes over time taking a some
what simple life form to the variety of complex ones we see today,
that is faith not science. As a faith it is just another other thing
people argue over.
Kelly
Originally posted by Will EverittNo thats impossible! If it conflicts with the bible it must be wrong. You can't have complex life without God. 🙄
So what happens when you have 100, or more say 10,000 small changes would that be a large change? How many small changes become a large change? You have to remember the massive times involved as well to get an idea of evolution. Many of the changes might make the life form more complex and larger as these might increse its chances of passing down its genes.