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Originally posted by twhiteheadOccams Razor is not an exact proof though. Its just I suppose, a rule of thumb for scientists. Of course its not faith but I'm sure many would think to question it. And realy for your example, if we are using Occams Razor, one cannot conjecture a tail side until it first appears. So even after the first toss, you could only presume a head.
Fact and faith are really all about statistics. That is why we use Occams Razor.
If I toss a coin 5 times and it comes up heads each time then we can hypothesize that it is a two headed coin.
If after 200 times it is still coming up heads then we call it a Theory that it is a two headed coin.
After 10,000 tosses most people will accept it as fact. Is t ...[text shortened]... heory and try to find other explanations for example devine intervention in the tossing process.
But your example works anyway. There is no evidence that the Romans or Dinasours did not exist. Thus, according to Occams Razor we can only believe that the Romans and the Dinosaurs existed.
Originally posted by Conrau KThis Occam's Razor?
Occams Razor is not an exact proof though. Its just I suppose, a rule of thumb for scientists. Of course its not faith but I'm sure many would think to question it. And realy for your example, if we are using Occams Razor, one cannot conjecture a tail side until it first appears. So even after the first toss, you could only presume a head.
But your exam ...[text shortened]... Thus, according to Occams Razor we can only believe that the Romans and the Dinosaurs existed.
"One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything."
1) God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit have always been around. Before time began. To God,
time is irrelevant.
2) No one could have created something so glorious! Big Bang? No way.
3) We live on a planet, no? Therefore, the universe was created.
For more "proof" check this out:
THE BIBLE
Please use it for all of the proof YOU need. There's more than enough in there:
Who created the universe, where did the flood waters come from, etc.
I will pray for you Scott.
Originally posted by NosracYou are insane, no?
1) God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit have always been around. Before time began. To God,
time is irrelevant.
2) No one could have created something so glorious! Big Bang? No way.
3) We live on a planet, no? Therefore, the universe was created.
For more "proof" check this out:
THE BIBLE
Please use it for all of the proof YOU need. There's m ...[text shortened]... reated the universe, where did the flood waters come from, etc.
I will pray for you Scott.
Originally posted by Conrau KScience is not about proof. Its about understanding how things work.
Occams Razor is not an exact proof though. Its just I suppose, a rule of thumb for scientists. Of course its not faith but I'm sure many would think to question it. And realy for your example, if we are using Occams Razor, one cannot conjecture a tail side until it first appears. So even after the first toss, you could only presume a head.
After the first toss even with occams razor you would not presume to know what the other side of the coin was, you would not even presume a head for it.
But your example works anyway. There is no evidence that the Romans or Dinasours did not exist. Thus, according to Occams Razor we can only believe that the Romans and the Dinosaurs existed.
I still think that believe is the wrong word here.When the weight of evidence is sufficient it can be called a fact even though there may be some rather far fetched explanations for the evidence being misleading. I dont think Kelly would deny the existance of fosils, nor would he postulate that they are just interestingly shaped rocks that formed by random chance. He would accept that the evidence that they are the remains of living creatures is sufficient to consider it fact yet other evidence equally valid that many of the fosils are millions of years old, he will deny and call faith. I guess this is a combination of a lack of education in the sciences (as his clear lack of understanding on how to measure speed shows (see speed of light thread)), a conflict of interest with his Christian faith, and a misinformation campaign by various Christians about the validity and quantity of the evidence.
And pray tell, why don't you believe?
Is it just the devil icon, or is there more?
Pray to the Lord for forgiveness.
Confess to the Lord that you ARE a sinner.
The Lord will listen, and He will bless you more than you
can ever imagine!!!!
Look at Abraham. He was old, so was his wife Sarah and couldn't have children.
The Lord walked with Abraham. Abraham told the Lord about his wife.
The Lord talked to Abraham. He told Abraham that not only will his wife have children
but that his children would be in so great of number that they outweigh the grains
of sands in ALL of the oceans!!!! His wife did have children.
This is only one miracle.
Check the Bible out. There are many more miracles that will convince you
1) I am not insane and (2) there is hope for you!
Also, read John 3:16.
I will pray for you and your choice of icon.
Originally posted by NosracThe Lord talked to Joshua too and the results of that was genocide commited on Canaan. Praise God, my ass that wasn't from any god worthy of worship.
And pray tell, why don't you believe?
Is it just the devil icon, or is there more?
Pray to the Lord for forgiveness.
Confess to the Lord that you ARE a sinner.
The Lord will listen, and He will bless you more than you
can ever imagine!!!!
Look at Abraham. He was old, so was his wife Sarah and couldn't have children.
The Lord walked with ...[text shortened]... here is hope for you!
Also, read John 3:16.
I will pray for you and your choice of icon.
And leave my imp icon outta this, you silly thing you.
Originally posted by frogstompApparently, sometimes the baby and the bathwater both belong outside.
The Lord talked to Joshua too and the results of that was genocide commited on Canaan. Praise God, my ass that wasn't from any god worthy of worship.
And leave my imp icon outta this, you silly thing you.
Originally posted by NosracCarson, just to explain it to you, I DON"T ACCEPT THE BIBLE AS PROOF.
1) God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit have always been around. Before time began. To God,
time is irrelevant.
2) No one could have created something so glorious! Big Bang? No way.
3) We live on a planet, no? Therefore, the universe was created.
For more "proof" check this out:
THE BIBLE
Please use it for all of the proof YOU need. There's m ...[text shortened]... reated the universe, where did the flood waters come from, etc.
I will pray for you Scott.
I'm not sure if you'll understand that, and I'm not being condescending here. We just operate on different wavelengths.
Absolute authority for me is NOT invested in any single book, no matter what people say about it.
And I would ask you why you place so much authority in it?
Now you'll tell me because it's the word of the lord or some such statement, but that's just what you've been taught to say.
Why not the Koran for example?
I would suggest it's because you were brought up in a Christian family and a Christian society.
Let's imagine the situation where you'd been brought up ina Muslim family/society - you'd be spouting Allah and Mohammed. Don't you find that strange?
Your faith is an accident of your birth.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadAfter the first toss even with occams razor you would not presume to know what the other side of the coin was, you would not even presume a head for it.
Science is not about proof. Its about understanding how things work.
After the first toss even with occams razor you would not presume to know what the other side of the coin was, you would not even presume a head for it.
[b]But your example works anyway. There is no evidence that the Romans or Dinasours did not exist. Thus, according to Occams Razor ...[text shortened]... nformation campaign by various Christians about the validity and quantity of the evidence.
[/b]
While I wouldn't presume that the other side is a head, according to Occams razor I should. But its really a matter of interpretation.
Now while I don't think that the word "belief" is right either, I do sympathise with Kelly. Certainly, Intelligent Design might be right: God could have created the entire universe in six days along with fossil evidence just to confuse us. Now we reject this based on Occams Razor, since there is no evidence to suggest that such a God did make the universe in six days (but we could be wrong). But it seems more practical to accept the theory of evolution rather then some remotely possible fable. So I would call evolution lass a "faith" and more a pragmatism I suppose.
I agree though that the evidence for evolution is valid and the current trend towards Inteligent Design reflects a poor scientific education. Now why is it that ID is predominantly is an American thing?...