Originally posted by frogstompIt is done with evolution all the time, you take what you see and
This Occam's Razor?
"One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything."
assume it will carry on beyond the boundaries of what you see now
in life, when it comes to change.
Kelly
Originally posted by amannionYes, fossils don't come with written and oral history, they don't have
Okay, I know I said I wasn't going to post anymore, but it's like an addiction, I can't help myself.
Kelly, I was thinking about your post just now and it struck me that the sort of 'putting together' of fossil stuff that you reject, is exactly what historians do when analysing and describing history.
You're right, we do have documents and old buildings ...[text shortened]... in the past, is as difficult as analysing fossils. And generates as many alternatives too.
direct ancestors telling us anything, all the fossil record is, is fossils
and someone's interpretation on the every aspect of the fossils as far
as date and type of creature they were. We don’t know if they were put
together properly in many cases, we simply don't know how close to
reality anyone's opinions on the fossils are it isn't like we can prove
any view on them wrong!
Kelly
Originally posted by frogstompLOL, I agree, you can make up stories that suit your views on reality
You really don't know the degree of certainty that radiometric testing methods have obtained and because of your lack of knowlege you make it seem like you think science is basing it's conclusions on a nebulous "faith". No matter what you do or say, this fact remains: Science is more suited for studying the evolution of life on this planet than your book of jewish history ever was.
and make the claims that there isn't any faith involved all you want.
You have to bottom line truth at some point, and know your reaching
and filling in the gaps with what you think is true. You want to think
that when your facts are only found in your head that is reality you are
not dealing in faith, so be it. So when you date something a billion+
years old you believe that is reality and it isn’t faith, when you make
claims about mutations in life changing the original life forms into
all the various diversity of life today and you think that is reality that
is not faith you are in denial. Your world view is based on faith, it is
being placed in other things than scripture, but you are still there
nonetheless, you are a true believer.
Kelly
Originally posted by scottishinnzSo a new consistant dating method that disagreed with billions of
If you want to prove dating methods wrong all you have to do is measure a single sample multiple times by multiple methods. if the answers are consistant and convergant then the method is true and stable, if the answers generated are random and divergent (between samples AND methods) then the method cannot be said to be reliable.
Easy, huh.
years would be accepted at true if it disagreed with all the other
methods that everyone now believes to be true? I doubt it!
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIf a new method were consistent in refuting the old method, an investigation would be launched to determine which method is more accurate. If the new method proved to be correct, it would be adopted as standard.
So a new consistant dating method that disagreed with billions of
years would be accepted at true if it disagreed with all the other
methods that everyone now believes to be true? I doubt it!
Kelly
This is exactly how science works.
-JC
Originally posted by KellyJaycreation comes from an oral history...doesn't make it right
Yes, fossils don't come with written and oral history, they don't have
direct ancestors telling us anything, all the fossil record is, is fossils
and someone's interpretation on the every aspect of the fossils as far
as date and type of creature they were. We don’t know if they were put
together properly in many cases, we simply don't know how close to ...[text shortened]... e's opinions on the fossils are it isn't like we can prove
any view on them wrong!
Kelly
Originally posted by NosracI work on it from time to time. I've gone through much of Daniel and Genesis for instance.
Okay then, why don't you read the Bible from cover to cover?
This will include all 66 books.
If you want to pick apart the Bible, try reading what it really says FIRST.
Oh, before you do, the Bible cannot be picked apart.
The story of Creation is flawless.
Why don't you get Ph.Ds in evolutionary biology and theoretical physics?
Originally posted by KellyJayTHis here is my definition of faith:
LOL, I agree, you can make up stories that suit your views on reality
and make the claims that there isn't any faith involved all you want.
You have to bottom line truth at some point, and know your reaching
and filling in the gaps with what you think is true. You want to think
that when your facts are only found in your head that is reality you are
no ...[text shortened]... er things than scripture, but you are still there
nonetheless, you are a true believer.
Kelly
noun: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
here's a few more:
faith [ fayth ] (plural faiths)
noun
Definition:
1. belief or trust: belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof
2. religion or religious group: a system of religious belief, or the group of people who adhere to it
3. trust in God: belief in and devotion to God
4. set of beliefs: a strongly held set of beliefs or principles
5. loyalty: allegiance or loyalty to somebody or something
So yes according to #4, I do have a "faith" in science, however your attempt to equate #4 with #'s 1, 2 and 3 is a despicable four term fallacy.
Originally posted by frogstompI agree Frogstomp. I've tried to point out to Kelly on numerous occassions that his definition of the word "believe", and the context in which scientists use it are completely different. Kelly's "believe" is irrespective of evidence and will not change no matter how much evidence is presented, a scientist's "belief" is BECAUSE of evidence and will change as new information becomes available. When a scientist says "we believe blah blah blah" he's really saying "Based upon a data, experimentation, logical inferrence, observation and deduction, we think this is the most likely explanation". When Kelly says "I believe" he means, "I have a gut feeling, with little or no evidence to back it up..."
THis here is my definition of faith:
noun: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
here's a few more:
faith [ fayth ] (plural faiths)
noun
Definition:
1. belief or trust: belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof
2. religion or religious ...[text shortened]... ce, however your attempt to equate #4 with #'s 1, 2 and 3 is a despicable four term fallacy.
It's just the same for the word "faith".
Originally posted by FreakyKBH6:1 Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of
The Israelites were sometimes told to destroy just the men, sometimes the entire populace. It all depended upon the level of degeneracy the people had fallen into.
Israel: none went out, and none came in.
6:2 And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand
Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour.
6:3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round
about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.
6:4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of
rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven
times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.
6:5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with
the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the
people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall
fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight
before him.
6:6 And Joshua the son of Nun called the priests, and said unto them,
Take up the ark of the covenant, and let seven priests bear seven
trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the LORD.
6:7 And he said unto the people, Pass on, and compass the city, and
let him that is armed pass on before the ark of the LORD.
6:8 And it came to pass, when Joshua had spoken unto the people, that
the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns passed on
before the LORD, and blew with the trumpets: and the ark of the
covenant of the LORD followed them.
6:9 And the armed men went before the priests that blew with the
trumpets, and the rereward came after the ark, the priests going on,
and blowing with the trumpets.
6:10 And Joshua had commanded the people, saying, Ye shall not shout,
nor make any noise with your voice, neither shall any word proceed out
of your mouth, until the day I bid you shout; then shall ye shout.
6:11 So the ark of the LORD compassed the city, going about it once:
and they came into the camp, and lodged in the camp.
6:12 And Joshua rose early in the morning, and the priests took up the
ark of the LORD.
6:13 And seven priests bearing seven trumpets of rams' horns before
the ark of the LORD went on continually, and blew with the trumpets:
and the armed men went before them; but the rereward came after the
ark of the LORD, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets.
6:14 And the second day they compassed the city once, and returned
into the camp: so they did six days.
6:15 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they rose early
about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same
manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven
times.
6:16 And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew
with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the LORD
hath given you the city.
6:17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are
therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all
that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.
As far as I can tell that was your loving god talking.And it doesnt say anything about degeneracy ,only that they lived there, which of course is a good enough reason for your old fart god.