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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 21 Feb '18 16:11
    There is much talk of when life begins, but when does it end? Assuming that we pass into an “afterlife,” imagine some different situations. Assuming this, when are the “books” closed? At our last conscious moment?
  2. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    21 Feb '18 16:32
    Originally posted by @js357
    There is much talk of when life begins, but when does it end? Assuming that we pass into an “afterlife,” imagine some different situations. Assuming this, when are the “books” closed? At our last conscious moment?
    I can't assume such a thing.

    Life ends when we die.
  3. 21 Feb '18 17:57
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    I can't assume such a thing.

    Life ends when we die.
    Why didn’t I think of that?!
  4. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    22 Feb '18 01:57
    Originally posted by @js357
    There is much talk of when life begins, but when does it end? Assuming that we pass into an “afterlife,” imagine some different situations. Assuming this, when are the “books” closed? At our last conscious moment?
    We are souls , so never . Life is awesome
  5. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    22 Feb '18 01:59
    Amnesia is another question altogether
  6. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    22 Feb '18 03:59 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @js357
    There is much talk of when life begins, but when does it end? Assuming that we pass into an “afterlife,” imagine some different situations. Assuming this, when are the “books” closed? At our last conscious moment?
    I have never seen the word "afterlife" in the Bible.

    From what we read in the Bible there is an existence of the soul after physical death.

    As to when the books are closed, I assume you mean the books of one's deeds during physical life. The best I can offer is that after physical death one is ready for judgment, apparently.

    Hebrews 9:27

    Berean Study Bible
    Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment,

    Berean Literal Bible
    And inasmuch as it is apportioned to men to die once, and after this, judgment,

    New American Standard Bible
    And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

    King James Bible
    And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    Christian Standard Bible
    And just as it is appointed for people to die once--and after this, judgment--


    Of course I see some exceptions to everyone dying once.
    Lazarus, the poor widow's child, and a few others in the Bible died more than once, it appears.

    It is difficult to systemitize the Bible 100% many times.
  7. 22 Feb '18 16:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    I have never seen the word "afterlife" in the Bible.

    From what we read in the Bible there is an [b]existence
    of the soul after physical death.

    As to when the books are closed, I assume you mean the books of one's deeds during physical life. The best I can offer is that after physical death one is ready for judgment, apparently.

    Hebrews 9: ...[text shortened]... le died more than once, it appears.

    It is difficult to systemitize the Bible 100% many times.
    I find that the English language isn't conducive to expressing the idea that we die, at least in a world where people believe we don't "actually" die. The idea of an afterlife is semantically awkward.

    MedicineNet states that: "An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards."

    It says, "This definition was approved by the American Medical Association in 1980 and by the American Bar Association in 1981."

    Is this an acceptable definition of what you call "physical death?"

    By "books" I mean the physical life of the individual is over, is complete, and is henceforth unchangeable. Judgements made about the person may be subject to change only if there is new information that comes to light. The physically dead person is incapable of doing anything to change these judgements.

    In the process of dying, physical changes occur. Faculties of thought may weaken, may be beset by dementia, etc. When in this process does the person become incapable of changing the record of his/her life? I suppose it is when consciousness is irreversibly lost, either induced or natural which may be before (or after?) the medically defined time of death.
  8. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    23 Feb '18 08:09 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @js357
    Is this an acceptable definition of what you call "physical death?"


    I don't see why not. Concerning the physical body they are the current experts.


    By "books" I mean the physical life of the individual is over, is complete, and is henceforth unchangeable. Judgements made about the person may be subject to change only if there is new information that comes to light. The physically dead person is incapable of doing anything to change these judgements.


    Now we are moving from the scientific to a deeper realm.

    Does anything happening in the departed soul in any way effect the record before God of that person?

    I don't know.
    Everything I am told by God's word emphasizes the life
    lived before physical death.

    I see some activity of departed souls apparently on the other side of physical death in the Bible. How these matters effect God's recognition of all records pertaining to those individuals is completely unknown to me.


    In the process of dying, physical changes occur. Faculties of thought may weaken, may be beset by dementia, etc. When in this process does the person become incapable of changing the record of his/her life? I suppose it is when consciousness is irreversibly lost, either induced or natural which may be before (or after?) the medically defined time of death.


    I don't know. I believe that the human spirit is the deepest part of man. The conscience, the intuition, and the fellowship with God goes down deep. Only God sees down to the depths of the uttermost internals of humanity.

    This I do know, I think. I knew a Christian who had a brother who was in a serious car accident. He spent days in a coma. When he awoke he was a believer in Christ and in fellowship with God.

    Did he have this before the coma?
    I don't know.

    Did he meet the Lord Jesus deep down there in his subconscious somehow ??
    I really don't know.

    But I believed the account that was given to me that his brother came up out of the coma decidedly aware of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    If you have a loved on in such a condition, you may always, ... always PRAY for them. "Men ought always to pray and not lose heart." (Luke 18:1)
  9. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    23 Feb '18 08:27
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Is this an acceptable definition of what you call "physical death?"


    I don't see why not. Concerning the physical body they are the current experts.

    [quote]
    By "books" I mean the physical life of the individual is over, is complete, and is henceforth unchangeable. Judgements made about the person may be subject to change only if there ...[text shortened]... , ... always PRAY for them. [b]"Men ought always to pray and not lose heart." (Luke 18:1)
    [/b]
    STFU.._._. I'm a rude c*** but I know your soul
  10. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    23 Feb '18 14:31 / 1 edit
  11. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    23 Feb '18 14:43
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    STFU.._._. I'm a rude c*** but I know your soul
    Chill dude. All friends here.
  12. 23 Feb '18 16:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Is this an acceptable definition of what you call "physical death?"


    I don't see why not. Concerning the physical body they are the current experts.

    [quote]
    By "books" I mean the physical life of the individual is over, is complete, and is henceforth unchangeable. Judgements made about the person may be subject to change only if there ...[text shortened]... , ... always PRAY for them. [b]"Men ought always to pray and not lose heart." (Luke 18:1)
    [/b]
    "Does anything happening in the departed soul in any way effect the record before God of that person?

    I don't know.
    Everything I am told by God's word emphasizes the life
    lived before physical death."

    I find it interesting that there isn't more specific information in religious doctrine on when (or at what point) physical death occurs and it becoming "too late" to repent and be saved. It might be that this knowledge can be gleaned from Biblical sources that describe the acts, mental conditions, conscious, sincere free will decisions and external signs that any such internal conditions have been met and the believer's faith is accurate and true. I know that some religions place weight on a baptism and acceptance of a creed, but I'd think that such a supposedly important event would leave the dying person with more certainty in his last days, as to his fate.

    Of course some charlatan could swoop in hawking a salvation salve or atonement tonic. That could happen.
  13. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    23 Feb '18 20:11
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Chill dude. All friends here.
    No we are not all
    friends here
    I'm afraid .

    Not to mention you r telling me how to behave and interrupting the universal flow.

    Love me and I'll love u 10 times back, hate me and I will destroy you. The battle lines have been drawn, the 4 horsemen approach, sir
  14. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    23 Feb '18 20:14
    Originally posted by @js357
    "Does anything happening in the departed soul in any way effect the record before God of that person?

    I don't know.
    Everything I am told by God's word emphasizes the life
    lived before physical death."

    I find it interesting that there isn't more specific information in religious doctrine on when (or at what point) physical death occurs and it becoming ...[text shortened]... e some charlatan could swoop in hawking a salvation salve or atonement tonic. That could happen.
    "That could happen"

    Is it possible ? Is it plausible ?
  15. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    23 Feb '18 20:20
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    No we are not all
    friends here
    I'm afraid .

    Not to mention you r telling me how to behave and interrupting the universal flow.

    Love me and I'll love u 10 times back, hate me and I will destroy you. The battle lines have been drawn, the 4 horsemen approach, sir
    Universal flow is interrupted by unnecessary vulgarity.

    And are you sure you want to go to battle against the Duke?!