When Jesus Became Son of God

Originally posted by Dasa
Sadly again (3:26:-28) is a false statement.

Why?

Because we are all sons of God for eternity and that will never change.

Faith has nothing to do with it.

Once more the Christian doctrine is trying to emotionally extort the innocent people, by saying that they must have faith in Jesus to be a son of God.

This is extortion because we must believe ...[text shortened]... e them to return to the material world to take birth again for their ignorance and sinful lives.

Some people here are taking this thread to involve their faith, whereas at present it involves the development of early Christianity. The current idea is that soon after His death (I capitalize out of respect) Jesus was believed by early Christians to have been made divine by God upon His resurrection, and later was thought to be made so upon his (obviously) earlier incarnation, and even later (in John) seen to have divine and coequal, and eventually, identical status with God the father for time eternal.

It has nothing to do with whether Dasa is saved.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I was responding to Grampy, but it should have been in his "What do you believe thread."
My bad, I hope no one was offended because it was on here twice.😕

So, let me get this straight. You do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

Do you believe in Grace, the concept that without this gift from God, we, as mortal men and creatures of sin, could never 'earn' salvation without the sacrifice of the Son of God? That man cannot earn their own way to the Kingdom of God, but that by believing on another man that we can? Most Christians I think would say that we can be saved only as a result of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and that it took the sacrifice of the sinless Son of God (no other would suffice) to save us. I think most Christians would say that Jesus must have been divine (a mingling of God and man) for this substitutive sacrifice to have any meaning. Does this not enter into your belief? If Jesus was 100% man, how could he have no sin?

So many questions!

Originally posted by JS357
Some people here are taking this thread to involve their faith, whereas at present it involves the development of early Christianity. The current idea is that soon after His death (I capitalize out of respect) Jesus was believed by early Christians to have been made divine by God upon His resurrection, and later was thought to be made so upon his (obviously) e ...[text shortened]... status with God the father for time eternal.

It has nothing to do with whether Dasa is saved.

I assume by the title of this thread, you mean when did the church and Christians begin believing that Jesus was the Son of God, and not when did Jesus actually become the Son of God, correct?

Because these two questions would have far different answers.

Originally posted by Suzianne
So, let me get this straight. You do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

Do you believe in Grace, the concept that without this gift from God, we, as mortal men and creatures of sin, could never 'earn' salvation without the sacrifice of the Son of God? That man cannot earn their own way to the Kingdom of God, but that by believing on another man ...[text shortened]... enter into your belief? If Jesus was 100% man, how could he have no sin?

So many questions!

Yes, Jesus Christ is "100% man" [Perfect Humanity and Undiminished Deity in hypostatic union in one Person forever].
This is why the wording: "only begotten Son..." means "uniquely born Son" in the Koine Greek of John 3:16.

Edit Footnote: The human mother and father of Jesus Christ did not engage in pre-marital sex nor did they enjoy sexual intercourse during their marriage until after the Virgin Birth of their first Son Jesus Christ: God the Holy Spirit supernaturally caused her first pregnancy. Subsequently, Mary did give birth to several other sons as well as daughters as the result of sexual intercourse with her husband Joseph.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]What Do You Believe?
I believe in one God and one Lord, Jesus Christ. I believe another name for God is Holy Spirit. I believe that at the new birth we receive the gift of holy spirit which is God's gift to the believer.
This one gift has nine manifestations, speaking in tongues, interpretation, prophecy, etc.
I do not believe one has to believ ...[text shortened]... d"
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved-2[/b]

Checkbaiter, have you been a learner under a The Way International ? Were you taught by Dr. Wierwille?

Originally posted by Suzianne
So, let me get this straight. You do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

Do you believe in Grace, the concept that without this gift from God, we, as mortal men and creatures of sin, could never 'earn' salvation without the sacrifice of the Son of God? That man cannot earn their own way to the Kingdom of God, but that by believing on another man ...[text shortened]... enter into your belief? If Jesus was 100% man, how could he have no sin?

So many questions!

So, let me get this straight. You do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

Where did I say that? Of course he is the Son of God.

Do you believe in Grace, the concept that without this gift from God, we, as mortal men and creatures of sin, could never 'earn' salvation without the sacrifice of the Son of God?

Of course I do...

That man cannot earn their own way to the Kingdom of God, but that by believing on another man that we can? Most Christians I think would say that we can be saved only as a result of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and that it took the sacrifice of the sinless Son of God (no other would suffice) to save us

I totally agree here also.

I think most Christians would say that Jesus must have been divine (a mingling of God and man) for this substitutive sacrifice to have any meaning. Does this not enter into your belief? If Jesus was 100% man, how could he have no sin?

Yes he was 100% man, but you must remember he was born of a woman. God implanted a "seed" in Mary. He partook of flesh and blood but not the sin nature part.
He was just like the first Adam. Adam had no sin nature, and neither did Jesus.
Adam failed, Jesus remained sinless even unto death.

FYI...Father’ line: Jesus inherited genetic material from Mary (to be fully human, i.e., descendant of Adam to become the Last Adam) but not from Joseph, therefore, original sin must pass through the father to the offspring. This allows Jesus to avoid original sin.

Originally posted by sonship
Checkbaiter, have you been a learner under a [b]The Way International ? Were you taught by Dr. Wierwille?[/b]

Yes, about 40 years ago, briefly, but left that group quickly. Why do you ask? Yes, I already know. In your estimation they were a cult. In fact anyone who does not believe in a Trinity is a cult. Right?

Originally posted by checkbaiter

So, let me get this straight. You do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

Where did I say that? Of course he is the Son of God.

Do you believe in Grace, the concept that without this gift from God, we, as mortal men and creatures of sin, could never 'earn' salvation without the sacrifice of the Son of God?

Of c ...[text shortened]... had no sin nature, and neither did Jesus.
Adam failed, Jesus remained sinless even unto death.

Checkbaiter, Your reference to brotherly love was appreciated. This mean maybe we can discuss the Deity of Jesus Christ in civility ?

I want to talk to you about -- the trinity. I think that the trinity you don't believe in is not the Trinity that I believe in.

Originally posted by sonship
Checkbaiter, Your reference to brotherly love was appreciated. This mean maybe we can discuss the Deity of Jesus Christ in civility ?

I want to talk to you about -- the trinity. I think that the trinity you don't believe in is not the Trinity that I believe in.

I think we have been down this road before. But, as you wish.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Yes, about 40 years ago, briefly, but left that group quickly. Why do you ask? Yes, I already know. In your estimation they were a cult. In fact anyone who does not believe in a Trinity is a cult. Right?

Hold on. Not so fast.

The last Christians I knew who talked the way you do were in The Way International - insisting Jesus was Son of God a MAN a MAN a MAN (which of course I believe). But they insisted that you lose Christianity when you say Jesus is God.

So I guess I lose Christianity. Oh Well.
My God is the man Jesus Christ.

Anyway, you passed through a controversial group but still retain, I think, some major beliefs they taught you about Jesus not being God Himself.

Why don't you believe God and man are mingled as one in the Person of Jesus Christ ?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I think we have been down this road before. But, as you wish.

You are too nice. I have noticed that both you and I have similar views on the nature of Jesus Christ. You have already told sonship that you would not change your view in this regard .. several times if I remember correctly. Why does he continue to insist that he can brainwash you into believing like him I cannot understand.

Originally posted by sonship
Hold on. Not so fast.

The last Christians I knew who talked the way you do were in The Way International - insisting Jesus was Son of God a MAN a MAN a MAN (which of course I believe). But they insisted that you lose Christianity when you say Jesus is God.

So I guess I lose Christianity. Oh Well.
[b] My God is the man Jesus Christ.

An ...[text shortened]... self.

Why don't you believe God and man are mingled as one in the Person of Jesus Christ ?[/b]

But they insisted that you lose Christianity when you say Jesus is God.

I disagree with that view. Any person that has received Jesus as Lord is born again and this gift is irrevocable regardless if they believe Jesus is God or not.
I don't have a problem with people that believe in a trinity, I still consider them brothers and sisters if they are born again. It seems more to me like they have a problem with me.

Anyway, you passed through a controversial group but still retain, I think, some major beliefs they taught you about Jesus not being God Himself

I don't remember much of what I learned there, it was a long time ago. My beliefs are from bible reading and various teachers from other groups, like "Spirit and Truth Fellowship" or "Truth and Tradition" http://www.truthortradition.com/

Why don't you believe God and man are mingled as one in the Person of Jesus Christ

They are mingled. Just as you and I are mingled with God, but it makes neither of us God.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I think we have been down this road before. But, as you wish.

There was a time in church history where there was reaction to making Jesus so Divine that some were afraid that this would make Him not human.

Some of the bringing in of praying to Mary and to the saints was a part of this problem. If Jesus was so much God, some feared they would lose the human touch. So they began to teach we can get sympathy from Mary, the past saints, all of which we know were very human.

I think that some decided to chuck the entire revelation of Christ being God become a man to say Jesus most definitely was only a 100% man.

God and man are mingled in Jesus Christ. To "mingle" two or more things is to combine them in such a way that they retain their distinctiveness in the combination.

In Jesus Christ we discern God. And in Jesus Christ we discern humanity. The two essences remain distinguishable in the combination.

How about we confess Christ is 100% the perfect man mingled with 100% the eternal uncreated God ?

Originally posted by sonship
There was a time in church history where there was reaction to making Jesus so Divine that some were afraid that this would make Him not human.

Some of the bringing in of praying to Mary and to the saints was a part of this problem. If Jesus was so much God, some feared they would lose the human touch. So they began to teach we can get sympathy from Mar ...[text shortened]... ow about we confess Christ is 100% the perfect man mingled with 100% the eternal uncreated God ?

I know the religion you speak of, I was raised in that doctrine as a child, and I agree.

How about we confess Christ is 100% the perfect man mingled with 100% the eternal uncreated God ?

I agree to that point as well.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

They are mingled. Just as you and I are mingled with God, but it makes neither of us God.
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If we are mingled with God, then in some sense we have to say that we are God.

Can we be Christ's Body without being Christ ?

We can be God via His dispensing of His life into us without being God in His Headship or mon-communicable attributes.

If the Spirit is God, and "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) then you are God, so far in your human spirit which is "joined to the Lord".

Am I right ?